[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

The verse speaks of those who are alive will be caught up. I don't think of this as resurrection. I don't know what to think/say.

Paul says that there will be a resurrection when the Lord comes, and then throws in an aside about what happens to the ones that remain alive at the time of the resurrection.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

Paul says that there will be a resurrection when the Lord comes, and then throws in an aside about what happens to the ones that remain alive at the time of the resurrection.

This would have to be the first resurrection then, the resurrection of the righteous.

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

This would have to be the first resurrection then, the resurrection of the righteous.

Yes.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

Yes.

This would be the beginning of the thousand year reign? Or is it sometime after the thousand years start?

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

This would be the beginning of the thousand year reign? Or is it sometime after the thousand years start?

It is at the return of Jesus, shortly before the thousand year reign.
Jesus will return and gather the believers into the clouds at the first resurrection.

Revelation 14:14-16 14And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped.

Then the bowls of wrath are poured out on the nations, culminating in the battle of Armageddon.

Revelation 14:17-20 17And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

It is at the return of Jesus, shortly before the thousand year reign.
Jesus will return and gather the believers into the clouds at the first resurrection.



Then the bowls of wrath are poured out on the nations, culminating in the battle of Armageddon.

I was thinking of this verse:

Do you believe we reign with Christ from heaven?

Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I was thinking of this verse:

Do you believe we reign with Christ from heaven?

Revelation 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.

Jesus reigns from Jerusalem during the thousand years.

Revelation 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

Micah 4:2 And many nations shall come, and say, Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, and to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for the law shall go forth of Zion, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

Jesus reigns from Jerusalem during the thousand years.

Do you mean we meet Him in the air and go to Jerusalem to reign with Him?

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Do you mean we meet Him in the air and go to Jerusalem to reign with Him?

Yes, we meet Him in the air, stay there during the bowls of wrath, then descend to Jerusalem for the thousand year kingdom.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

Yes, we meet Him in the air, stay there during the bowls of wrath, then descend to Jerusalem for the thousand year kingdom.

Stay hovering in the air?

Do you have a verse about us reigning from Jerusalem with Christ?

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Stay hovering in the air?

The verses are unclear on that because the same words are used for sky and heaven in Greek and also in Hebrew.
Wherever He is when He is coming in the clouds of heaven when we see Him, that is where we will meet Him and be during the seven bowls of wrath.

Matthew 26:64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Do you have a verse about us reigning from Jerusalem with Christ?

No, because Jesus reigns from Jerusalem, but we are given rule over the cities of the nations.

Luke 19:11-28 11And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear. 12He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return. 13And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come. 14But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us. 15And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading. 16Then came the first, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained ten pounds. 17And he said unto him, Well, thou good servant: because thou hast been faithful in a very little, have thou authority over ten cities. 18And the second came, saying, Lord, thy pound hath gained five pounds. 19And he said likewise to him, Be thou also over five cities. 20And another came, saying, Lord, behold, here is thy pound, which I have kept laid up in a napkin: 21For I feared thee, because thou art an austere man: thou takest up that thou layedst not down, and reapest that thou didst not sow. 22And he saith unto him, Out of thine own mouth will I judge thee, thou wicked servant. Thou knewest that I was an austere man, taking up that I laid not down, and reaping that I did not sow: 23Wherefore then gavest not thou my money into the bank, that at my coming I might have required mine own with usury? 24And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds. 25(And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.) 26For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him. 27But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me. 28And when he had thus spoken, he went before, ascending up to Jerusalem.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

The verses are unclear on that because the same words are used for sky and heaven in Greek and also in Hebrew.
Wherever He is when He is coming in the clouds of heaven when we see Him, that is where we will meet Him and be during the seven bowls of wrath.




No, because Jesus reigns from Jerusalem, but we are given rule over the cities of the nations.

That is helpful. You don't believe we will be reigning from heaven?

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

That is helpful. You don't believe we will be reigning from heaven?

No, reigning from heaven would serve no purpose that I can see.

When the armies of the nations are destroyed in the battle of Armegeddon, there will be many survivors in the nations that will need local governance to guide them. Governing local areas will be our duty during the thousand years. Some of us will be governing over a small neighborhood. Some of us will be governing over the ones in charge of small neighborhoods. Some of us will be governing over them. The chain of authority ends with Jesus governing over all from Jerusalem.
The example for this was given in scripture:

Exodus 18:19-26 19Hearken now unto my voice, I will give thee counsel, and God shall be with thee: Be thou for the people to God-ward, that thou mayest bring the causes unto God: 20And thou shalt teach them ordinances and laws, and shalt shew them the way wherein they must walk, and the work that they must do. 21Moreover thou shalt provide out of all the people able men, such as fear God, men of truth, hating covetousness; and place such over them, to be rulers of thousands, and rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens: 22And let them judge the people at all seasons: and it shall be, that every great matter they shall bring unto thee, but every small matter they shall judge: so shall it be easier for thyself, and they shall bear the burden with thee. 23If thou shalt do this thing, and God command thee so, then thou shalt be able to endure, and all this people shall also go to their place in peace. 24So Moses hearkened to the voice of his father in law, and did all that he had said. 25And Moses chose able men out of all Israel, and made them heads over the people, rulers of thousands, rulers of hundreds, rulers of fifties, and rulers of tens. 26And they judged the people at all seasons: the hard causes they brought unto Moses, but every small matter they judged themselves.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by genuineoriginal

No, reigning from heaven would serve no purpose that I can see.

Isn't that where Jesus is reigning even now?

When the armies of the nations are destroyed in the battle of Armegeddon, there will be many survivors in the nations that will need local governance to guide them. Governing local areas will be our duty during the thousand years. Some of us will be governing over a small neighborhood. Some of us will be governing over the ones in charge of small neighborhoods. Some of us will be governing over them. The chain of authority ends with Jesus governing over all from Jerusalem.
The example for this was given in scripture:

[genuineoriginal]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Isn't that where Jesus is reigning even now?

Jesus is seated with God in heaven now, but has not been given His kingdom yet.
That happens at the sounding of the seventh trumpet.

Revelation 11:15-18 15And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. 16And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, 17Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. 18And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

When Jesus is given the kingdom, He reigns from Jerusalem.

Psalm 2:1-7 1Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing? 2The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed, saying, 3Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us. 4He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: the LORD shall have them in derision. 5Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath, and vex them in his sore displeasure. 6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion. 7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession. 9Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.