ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
I used the definitions for χάρις "charis" which was used by Paul in Ephesians 2:8. Your lie is not doing you any favors.
Where in the world did you get the definition of "divine influence upon the heart?" Can you provide proof that χάρις is defined that way by anyone other than theologians who are adding their man-made doctrines into the text?
Strong's Concordance
charis #5485
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 50074
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyver
No, I think we can please him with our works too. It's just that when you talk about Enoch, you're talking about a very specific case. As far as I know, there's only two people who've ever been taken to heaven without suffering physical death, and Enoch is one of them.
Enoch was just an example given.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The only kind of work that pleases God is the work of faith.
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Notice the phrase, "that our God would count you worthy of this calling." That does not speak of God giving unmerited favor, but of having some merit for the favor He gives.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elohiym
Luke 15:23-24 And bring hither the fatted calf, and kill it; and let us eat, and be merry: For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
This is a parable. Doctrine is not established according to parables or narratives or analogies.
God's joy is centered in His Son.
To bring any joy to God, we must be found abiding in Christ Jesus by faith, which blessing comes only by the grace of God.
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 50074
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang
Strong's Concordance
charis #5485
So you are relying on a definition added centuries later by theologians to prove a doctrine instead of how the word was defined when Paul wrote the epistle?
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
Enoch was just an example given.
Hebrews 11:6
But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
The only kind of work that pleases God is the work of faith.
2 Thessalonians 1:11
Wherefore also we pray always for you, that our God would count you worthy of this calling, and fulfil all the good pleasure of his goodness, and the work of faith with power:
Notice the phrase, "that our God would count you worthy of this calling." That does not speak of God giving unmerited favor, but of having some merit for the favor He gives.
Faith is not a work.
Faith is a gift from God.
Grace cannot be earned or merited.
By your words, you destroy all concept of grace!
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.
So you are relying on a definition added centuries later by theologians to prove a doctrine instead of how the word was defined when Paul wrote the epistle?
Exactly she doesn't know the difference between what the Bible says and what theologians have said.
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:24 PM
No matter how you slice it, whether it is merited by Christ's work exclusively or merited based on the fact we are God's offspring (Acts 17:28-29), the free gift is merited nonetheless by those who exercise the faith to receive it.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
That is a lie. Many people talk about earning forgiveness.
I already said that we do not merit God's Grace with our works. Why are you arguing as if I made that claim?
My claim is that the scriptures say we merit God's Grace through our faith because it is our faith that pleases Him.
Romans 4:5
But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Faith pleases God but it does not merit forgiveness.
Sinners are forgiven because they are first chosen by the Father by name in Christ, because Christ died for them, and because the Holy Spirit raises them to new spiritual life.
The evidence of all this is the exhibition of faith, and God is pleased, for Christians are His workmanship. Ephesians 2:10
Faith merits Christ's glory; not our favor or forgiveness or grace.
Soli Deo Gloria!
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
February 22nd, 2012, 06:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang
This is a parable. Doctrine is not established according to parables or narratives or analogies.
Jesus taught with parables. Those parables are the teachings of the Church, and if any doctrine is not established according to those parables then that doctrine is likely false. It is written, "If they speak not according to the law and prophets, there is no light in them."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang
God's joy is centered in His Son.
I am His son, too. Why do you think that God loves Himself more than me?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nang
To bring any joy to God, we must be found abiding in Christ Jesus by faith, which blessing comes only by the grace of God.
I agree. However, I would say that the grace we receive is merited because 1) we are His offspring (Acts 17:28-29), and children merit their parent's favor, and 2) God promised the gift of the Holy Spirit (Ga 3:14), meaning that it is merited by those who receive it.
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