ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
February 27th, 2012, 09:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeymikey
That's where Faith comes in...
And yet, something isn't necessarily true simply because I happen to believe it, correct?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Reputation:
February 27th, 2012, 11:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven
No!!!
Matthew 4
Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’”
Luke 4
8 And Jesus answered and said to him, “Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”
Mat 16:23 But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.
Mar 8:33 But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
What was your point, Raven?
Or, was it the highlighted blue LORD to compare with this Lord here?
Act 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.
Act 2:28 Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.
Act 2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Act 2:30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
Act 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Act 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
Act 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Act 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
The life after death in the form of spirits is a Platonic philosophy taken up by Catholics in order of generating income from selling sainthood similar way as selling of the indulgencies.
One could buy indulgencies like the steps from Jacob dream’s step ladder absolving one from sin for 500 or so years. Pity one lives for circa 70-80 years.
Why Catholics didn’t come up with selling extensions of one life? No, the scam is too obvious.
By the way, Vatican saw Mary taken to heaven in flesh just 60 years ago.
One wonders where she was all the ages.
Besides, Jesus teaches to pray to the Father the only one true God not to dead people.
One wonders what are "the spirits of those holy people who are already in heaven" gone do when the Father rises the dead through HIS man servant Jesus for the judgment.
Ok , point by point at least where there is a point.
Paul did infact refer to the living converts as Saints. He also expected to live until the return of Jesus. He thought that the bulk of the people he preached to would be alive to see Jesus return. He was proved wrong.
In a few hundred years the meaning of the word had changed and it referred to those who of us who had won the fight and had been accepted into heaven. The word "saint" retained that primary meaning for roughly a thousand years until the Protestant reformation when protestant preachers tried to change the meaning. They had a problem with "saint" because being recognized as a "saint " by then had come to require that the Pope agree to that status. They had serious reasons to deny any power to the Pope. (Their political backers, the European Princes, wanted to be free of Papal power and Papal restraint and the protestant preachers had to tailor their theology to the needs of their masters.)
They did Protestantism a great disservice by robing it of its christian heros. "Saint' is how a christian hero is identified. Protestanism has had saints since then, probably a lot of them, but protestants will not acknowledge them. Its a shame. I personally think that the Catholics ought to research them and acknowledge them. These are men and women who have earned their laurals and even if their own people will not praise them, we should.
Life after death was what the early christian church believed and as the church matured it refined its belief in this direction. The indugence thing did not come along until on the order of a thousand years after the dogma was set. No one argues that selling of indulgences was anything other than a sin. Specificly it is the sin of "simeony" (sp), that is the selling of a sacred thing.
You can still earn indulgences but you have to Do Stuff, difficult stuff, of a spritual nature, like making pilgrimages on foot, etc. not just give money, to get them. I think it is kind of shaky theology and it certainly has gone out of fashion, but the dogma is still in place because there is nothing wrong with the logic upon which it is based. It is somewhat convoluted though.
However the point is that in crediting the selling of indulgences with creating the dogma of life after death you have the cart befor the horse. About a thousand years before the horse.
The assumption of Mary was officially acknowledged to be a true belief 60 years ago. It did not happen 60years ago. The dogma of the church is a living and growing thing, it is not static. We strive to know truth and the church strives to define truth , when necessary, for its members. Sometimes there are mis steps, remember Saint Christopher?
"His man servant, Jesus" My you do have some quirky personal theology don't you.
I will not argue that with you. If you want to deny the diety of the Christ go for . I take a more traditional view. clearly God the creator is different from God the redemmer who was incarnated as Jesus. Maybe there is even a difference in rank between them but I think you are in the position of an army recruit claiming that the "commander in chief' is not his boss because he is not "Mr President".
Slogan/motto:
"I've learned love is like a brick you can, build a house or sink a dead body".
Reputation:
February 28th, 2012, 05:38 AM
Mary is not to be worshipped, only God/Jesus. Of course Mary is revered and Blessed among women to have had the privilege of bearing the Son of God and thus has a place of honor.
Slogan/motto:
I have read a fiery gospel writ in burnished rows of steel.
Reputation:
February 28th, 2012, 06:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shelli
Was there some sort of a purpose in your response ... ?
Thanks for chatting. Have a wonderful ... time. Thank you for presuming to tell me what is "important" about Mary. Of course, you did not say why it is important for us to acknowledge the importance of Mary being chosen by God for bearing Jesus. Apparently, you "Know what is best" for other Christians.
Wow. Ease back a bit. No need to be hostile toward someone who agreed with you. Let me rephrase that: No need to be hostile toward anyone at all. Ever.
"God foreknows nothing by contingency, but that he foresees, purposes, and does all things according to his immutable, eternal and infallible will. By this thunderbolt, "free will" is thrown prostrate and utterly dashed to pieces. Those therefore, who would assert "free will," must either deny this thunderbolt, or pretend not to see it, or push it from them." -Martin Luther
"The Church has surrendered her once lofty concept of God and has substituted for it one so low, so ignoble, as to be utterly unworthy of thinking, worshiping men. This she has not done deliberately, but little by little and without her knowledge; and her very unawareness only makes her situation all the more tragic." -A.W. Tozer
"He that has doctrinal knowledge and speculation only, without affection, never is engaged in the business of religion." -Jonathan Edwards
Slogan/motto:
This is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.
Reputation:
February 28th, 2012, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gagafritz
Mary is not to be worshipped, only God/Jesus. Of course Mary is revered and Blessed among women to have had the privilege of bearing the Son of God and thus has a place of honor.
Mat 6:9 After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
Uh...considering that she was still alive when Jesus was killed, she would not be of the "firstfruits" that were resurrected, so she had to have died after that, and soooooooooooooooo...
SHE SLEEPS.
It is DEMONS they worship with all the dead they talk to. And their Mary is the "Queen of Heaven" so noted in the book of Revelation.
DUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUH!
Read the BIBLE, the pope has got nothing! Nothing but the puppetstrings of Satan that operate his lips full of falsehoods. He's got NO AUTHORITY except over those who worship Satan.
Lady of Guadalupe! Give me a break. Why don't you go kiss that statue of Mary that has the snake feeding on her breast in one of your cathedrals. Necromaniac temples is what those are! Or take yourself over to the muslim mosque that has the CATHOLIC shrine with John the Baptists head in it. Then I'm sure they can tell you where John's arm is kept in one of your other cathedrals. And if you think I have been rough, just wait 'til one of you guys shows up and says I can't worship Yahuweh on HIS PRESCRIBED DAYS! Off with you, go follow your god the pope. That ain't milk foaming on your lips, it is blood. The blood of the saints is on the hands of those who stand against the Word of Yah...including the pope. Get a clue now, or follow him to the depths of satan the rest of the way. Your popes ride black horses.
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
February 28th, 2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire
If Jesus did not open Heaven to the faithful, then he was crucified in vain, and was saying empty words when he said "it is done."
I guess you don't subscribe to reading scriptures for issues like this.
But I would not have you ignorant of scriptures.
I Thessalonians 4:13-18
"But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18Wherefore comfort one another with these words."
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
February 27th, 2012, 09:27 PM
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