[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Choleric

I believe it. God foreknew. It is a wonderful destruction of the heresy of calvinism. The only verse in the bible that tells us how any person was elected, and putting the verse in front of a calvinist is like throwing a bucket of frogs in a huddle of 10 year old girls. Running and screaming and trying to get away as fast as possible.

Wanna watch? Here we go...get your popcorn:

1Pe_1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Nail meet coffin.

I love these nail in the coffin arguments. Let me get my pliers out.

I am going to have to assume (since you gave no exegesis) that you hold to the common view that foreknowlege in reference to salvation means that God foresaw who would believe and that's who was elected. If this isn't your view, that's okay. It's the view of a lot of folks and they can benefit from this.

So let's look at this in relation to Romans 8. "For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers."

So, in your view, He chooses (elects) those He foresees (foreknows) coming to faith. He looks down the corridors of time and sees who will respond to the call. But there's a huge problem with that. This passage says He calls those He predestines. This cannot be a general calling because it also says that He justifies those He calls. So if only those who will be justified are called (and let's stick to the context of this passage), there's no one to see down the corridors of time who is rejecting the call.

So it better, and consistent, to understand that God foreknows people, and not events. And the calling here refers to an effectual call.

Putting the coffin back in storage.


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[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Hasn't happened yet. But it will.

4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,
5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ-by grace you have been saved-
6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.


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[Sealeaf]

So where are the demons? I have been reading this thread to find about Satanic spirits and all I find is squabbling between denominations. False advertizing!

[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Sealeaf

So where are the demons? I have been reading this thread to find about Satanic spirits and all I find is squabbling between denominations. False advertizing!

The OP believes that everyone who doesn't believe what he believes is satanic.


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[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by NickCharles

The OP believes that everyone who doesn't believe what he believes is satanic.


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Not true.

Anything that comes ahead of the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is of the devil.

Example: Calvinist claim that they were predestinated to salvation before the foundation of the world. This is a Satanic Spirit.

God does nothing outside of Jesus Christ. All things are done through him, by him and for him.

No one is saved that does not come to Jesus Christ by hearing and believing the Gospel. No one can receive the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel.

God is not about to go around his Son Jesus Christ to save anyone.

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith, anti-bible, anti-Christ, and is a Satanic Spirit.

[meshak]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith, anti-bible, anti-Christ, and is a Satanic Spirit.

I agree fully

And the rest of protestants and trins follow her.

[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Not true.

Anything that comes ahead of the "Historical Gospel" of Jesus Christ is of the devil.

Example: Calvinist claim that they were predestinated to salvation before the foundation of the world. This is a Satanic Spirit.

That's a baseless conclusion.

God does nothing outside of Jesus Christ. All things are done through him, by him and for him.

No one is saved that does not come to Jesus Christ by hearing and believing the Gospel. No one can receive the Holy Spirit without hearing and believing the Gospel.

True, as long as you have the correct understanding of what it means to receive the Holy Spirit.

God is not about to go around his Son Jesus Christ to save anyone.

No argument with that.

Calvinism is anti-Gospel, anti-faith, anti-bible, anti-Christ, and is a Satanic Spirit.

Let me test what you actually know. According to Calvinism, us a person saved by grace through faith?


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[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by NickCharles

That's a baseless conclusion.
True, as long as you have the correct understanding of what it means to receive the Holy Spirit.
No argument with that.


Let me test what you actually know. According to Calvinism, us a person saved by grace through faith?


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CANONS OF DORT
FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #5

"Faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through Him is the free gift of God, as it is written: "For by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8.

This is very deceptive like most false religions because it is taken out of the context of the Calvinist religion.

According to Calvinism the "Free Gift" is only for some and not all. The following scriptures contradict that, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, Ephesians 3:9.

[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

CANONS OF DORT
FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #5

"Faith in Jesus Christ and salvation through Him is the free gift of God, as it is written: "For by grace you have been saved, through faith-and this not of yourselves, it is the gift of God" Ephesians 2:8.

This is very deceptive like most false religions because it is taken out of the context of the Calvinist religion.

According to Calvinism the "Free Gift" is only for some and not all. The following scriptures contradict that, 1 Timothy 2:5, 6, 1 Timothy 4:10, Titus 2:11, Hebrews 2:9, Ephesians 3:9.

We do believe the gift is free. I agree with the Canons as they accurately state biblical truths.

Have you found the part that says we believe we are saved by bievong in predestination? Yeah, I didn't think so.

[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by NickCharles

We do believe the gift is free. I agree with the Canons as they accurately state biblical truths.

Have you found the part that says we believe we are saved by bievong in predestination? Yeah, I didn't think so.

CANONS OF DORT
FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #7

"Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of his will chosen from the human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PERSONS to redemption in Christ."

This makes your Calvinist God unjust and a tyrant.

We are all sinners without works. We are born sinners. It is not our fault that we are sinners. Adam caused us to be sinners.

[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

CANONS OF DORT
FIRST HEAD ARTICLE #7

"Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of his will chosen from the human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, A CERTAIN NUMBER OF PERSONS to redemption in Christ."

This makes your Calvinist God unjust and a tyrant.

We are all sinners without works. We are born sinners. It is not our fault that we are sinners. Adam caused us to be sinners.

That's not really a counter argument. Plus, it's not the whole article.


FIRST HEAD: ARTICLE 7. Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, a certain number of persons to redemption in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect and the foundation of salvation. This elect number, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God has decreed to give to Christ to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit; to bestow upon them true faith, justification, and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His son, finally to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy, and for the praise of the riches of His glorious grace; as it is written "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."10 And elsewhere: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."11



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[Robert Pate]

Originally Posted by NickCharles

That's not really a counter argument. Plus, it's not the whole article.


FIRST HEAD: ARTICLE 7. Election is the unchangeable purpose of God, whereby, before the foundation of the world, He has out of mere grace, according to the sovereign good pleasure of His own will, chosen from the whole human race, which had fallen through their own fault from the primitive state of rectitude into sin and destruction, a certain number of persons to redemption in Christ, whom He from eternity appointed the Mediator and Head of the elect and the foundation of salvation. This elect number, though by nature neither better nor more deserving than others, but with them involved in one common misery, God has decreed to give to Christ to be saved by Him, and effectually to call and draw them to His communion by His Word and Spirit; to bestow upon them true faith, justification, and sanctification; and having powerfully preserved them in the fellowship of His son, finally to glorify them for the demonstration of His mercy, and for the praise of the riches of His glorious grace; as it is written "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will-- to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."10 And elsewhere: "And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."11



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Don't need the whole article, only the part that says "God chose some" but not all.

This is what makes your Calvinist God unjust and a tyrant.

This doesn't seem to bother you that your God is unjust and is a tyrant.

Here is a very big problem for you. It is not possible to have saving faith in the God of Calvinism. No one can have faith in a God that condemns people to hell for no particular reason.

No faith, no salvation. I don't blame you, I would not have faith in him either. He is not the God of the Bible. He is the God that John Calvin created in his twisted mind.

The God of the Bible is kind, loving, righteous, just, merciful, and not willing that any should perish. You can trust him completely.

[ttruscott]

Originally Posted by NickCharles

"Calvinism perverts the Gospel by teaching that people are predestinated to salvation by God before the foundation of the world. If this is true who needs Christ and his Gospel.

...

Calvin only missed the condition of our salvation and thought it was Unconditional.

We were all there before the foundaton of the world and most chose to bow to GOD in worship by a true free will choice whereupon GOD elected them to salvation and promised to save them by the gospel if they should ever fall into sin. Which some did.

Calvin didn't get it so wrong...not understanding our pre-earth existance and free will choice He only got it about 80% correct.

Peace, Ted

[NickCharles]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

Don't need the whole article, only the part that says "God chose some" but not all.

This is what makes your Calvinist God unjust and a tyrant.

Not that I think you'll answer this, but how does God choosing to save some make Him a tyrant?

This doesn't seem to bother you that your God is unjust and is a tyrant.

I'm not sure why you think He's unjust and a tyrant. I certainly don't think so.

Here is a very big problem for you. It is not possible to have saving faith in the God of Calvinism. No one can have faith in a God that condemns people to hell for no particular reason.

This is probably true. But fortunately, God condemns people to hell because they are sinners. I'm not sure why you don't believe that. It's biblical.

No faith, no salvation. I don't blame you, I would not have faith in him either. He is not the God of the Bible. He is the God that John Calvin created in his twisted mind.

You might know more of what Calvin said than I do. I, however, place my trust in the finished work of Christ. Do you?

The God of the Bible is kind, loving, righteous, just, merciful, and not willing that any should perish. You can trust him completely.

I do.


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[Cleekster]

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

This doesn't seem to bother you that your God is unjust and is a tyrant.

IME this attitude is prevelant throughout Christiandom.

Originally Posted by Robert Pate

The God of the Bible is kind, loving, righteous, just, merciful, and not willing that any should perish. You can trust him completely.

you don't read the OT much do you.