[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Yes of course. I'm wondering if that is where the redemption connection makes sense for you, in the Passover. Can I read about redemption in the Passover story?

Yep. It speaks of deliverance from bondage, and the saving power of the blood of the Lamb.

Exodus 6:6
Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

Ex. 12:21-23 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.


Exodus 13:15
And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by sky.

Yes. Thanks for the help on the wording.

Your verses helped me remember that verse...so thank you, too.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Would you say God has reconciled the world to Himself in His Son Jesus Christ and now we have the ministry of reconciling individuals to God because of what God has done?

I would say that God has reconciled the world, from the bondage that was 'under the law of moses', and yes, now God is sending us out to reconcile them to salvation through the new covenant.

All men stand as Adam was, prior to the fall....reconciled, but, they still have to choose the tree of life, that Adam NEVER chose of, and it is a freewill choice for each individual:

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

We 'choose' the tree of life, by accepting Him as our Savior, and by obeying His commandments. It is not only receiving the free gift, but once receiving it, DOING His commandments, due to the fact that He has CHANGED your heart/mind...circumcision of the heart, that those in unbelief DENY....because they do not WANT to obey Him, just receive the free gift, and they deny Him, and His gospel, by their denying He changed them, or gave them the power to DO His commandments.

The Holy Spirit is that power, but we have to submit to that power, and we are all free to do so.
He set our carnal minds free......and gave us a heart of flesh...that CAN be molded, but some are stubborn, and still refuse and deny the power of God, by not submitting to Him, so their love waxes cold.


They are good for nothing, cut off, until they learn NOT to blaspheme His gospel, and power.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

Yep, the blood was paid for the remission of sins, and we're redeemed (delivered) from sin's bondage when we're washed in the blood of the Lamb. Kinda like...signed, sealed, and delivered.

Revelation 1:5
And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

Redeemed from the 'curse of the law'..what law?

Moses.

Now, we stand in the new covenant where there is no condemnation, through that form of law, but if a man bring condemnation back on himself, by denying the law of Christ/new covenant law, make faith void, fall from grace, they are cut off, until they learn NOT to blaspheme.


God will get them grafted back in, but if you enter the new covenant, it does NOT automatically mean you are forever saved; for you must remain in faith....or you walk away from the inheritance..of your own freewill.

Good news is, that God is able to correct such ones as this...and, He does...but, then you have those who never really EVER enter the new covenant to begin with, but they are still reconciled; but have not yet partaken of the tree of life/new covenant.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

Amen, Through faith in His blood. Romans 3:25 KJV Gotta love it.

Yes, which is the new covenant.

[graceandpeace]

glorydaz;3017545]Yep. It speaks of deliverance from bondage, and the saving power of the blood of the Lamb.

Yes, but, as the shadow of the law demonstrates, only those whom applied the blood, (on the doorposts), would be saved...even though, the first part shows how God reconciled all of them, first. Reconciliation and salvation are not the same thing...and, we must also remember that these are just mere shadows of what was to come, but did not have the salvation as yet available, while the first tabernacle/covenant was in place...they pointed to it...as shadows...so, let us look at the verses.

Exodus 6:6
Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments:

the bold:

God spoke to the whole nation, and it was HIM that brought them symbolically out from under the burden of the egyptions/sin/law of moses, and ridded them of bondage, that was due to the curse of the law.....likewise the yellow:

Redemption through His stretched out arms...(the cross), but with great judgements, which is seen in the next verses:

Ex. 12:21-23 Then Moses called for all the elders of Israel, and said unto them, Draw out and take you a lamb according to your families, and kill the passover. And ye shall take a bunch of hyssop, and dip it in the blood that is in the bason, and strike the lintel and the two side posts with the blood that is in the bason; and none of you shall go out at the door of his house until the morning. For the LORD will pass through to smite the Egyptians; and when he seeth the blood upon the lintel, and on the two side posts, the LORD will pass over the door, and will not suffer the destroyer to come in unto your houses to smite you.

The 'judgement' would enter in, for those whom would NOT apply it...that was their part.

God had already redeemed them all, by His work on the cross, but He had given man freewill, and man has to CHOOSE to apply it..which is our part.

Likewise:

Exodus 13:15
And it came to pass, when Pharaoh would hardly let us go, that the LORD slew all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both the firstborn of man, and the firstborn of beast: therefore I sacrifice to the LORD all that openeth the matrix, being males; but all the firstborn of my children I redeem.

Pharaoh is like the false teachers of today...not wanting to let God's people DO their part...(applying the blood of the new covenant)...and, the 'firstborn' represent those whom overcome the lies of the evil one.

..and, freely CHOOSE to apply the blood of the new covenant.


while, others never apply the blood of the new covenant, and remain dead....for even though God has taken care of the sins of the whole world....He was never a God that forced anyone to apply it..you must accept the new covenant in His shed blood; apply it to yourself, and be saved.

So, we have some who never accept it, and we have some that do accept it, but, later undo it, by forgetting the blood that bought them, because they forgot, just like 'some' among Israel did, that the blood of the new covenant, and grace is the POWER of God...and many deny that power, by returning to Egypt/sin, and bondage...of it.

God circumcises every believer upon initial salvation, but that does not remove their freewill, to continue on, and grow in love..a man can quench out the very love of God and allow it to wax cold.


Good news for them, however is that even if they do this, God is faithful, and JUST, and will get them corrected.

By reaping and sowing, and when you sow unbelief; you will reap the rewards of it; if you choose to go back into the world, you get to be rewarded with what the world's reward is; destruction....but, it is talking about destruction of your carnal man.....nature, but it is not fun to undergo...the best thing to do is remain faithful, don't look back, stay the course, and, that is the will of God for us all, but sadly, some of us have to go the other route...but, needless to say, God corrects every child He loves and He loves all of us.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

I would say that God has reconciled the world, from the bondage that was 'under the law of moses', and yes, now God is sending us out to reconcile them to salvation through the new covenant.

All men stand as Adam was, prior to the fall....reconciled, but, they still have to choose the tree of life, that Adam NEVER chose of, and it is a freewill choice for each individual:

Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

We 'choose' the tree of life, by accepting Him as our Savior, and by obeying His commandments. It is not only receiving the free gift, but once receiving it, DOING His commandments, due to the fact that He has CHANGED your heart/mind...circumcision of the heart, that those in unbelief DENY....because they do not WANT to obey Him, just receive the free gift, and they deny Him, and His gospel, by their denying He changed them, or gave them the power to DO His commandments.

The Holy Spirit is that power, but we have to submit to that power, and we are all free to do so.
He set our carnal minds free......and gave us a heart of flesh...that CAN be molded, but some are stubborn, and still refuse and deny the power of God, by not submitting to Him, so their love waxes cold.


They are good for nothing, cut off, until they learn NOT to blaspheme His gospel, and power.

Is it possible that we do not have a right to the tree of life? You do describe how you believe we choose the tree of life.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Is it possible that we do not have a right to the tree of life? You do describe how you believe we choose the tree of life.

If we had no 'right' to it, first of all, God would never of offered it freely to Adam, and He never would likewise offer it freely to all men, via the new covenant; it does say, "come take of the tree of life, FREELY", does it not?



Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


It was only the 'tree of knowledge' that God said they could not eat of:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam could have FREELY taken of the tree of life, but he CHOSE not to...it is the same today, for all men:


Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Jesus is the new covenant, and He is the TREE of LIFE.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

If we had no 'right' to it, first of all, God would never of offered it freely to Adam, and He never would likewise offer it freely to all men, via the new covenant; it does say, "come take of the tree of life, FREELY", does it not?



Gen 2:9 And out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree that is pleasant to the sight, and good for food; the tree of life also in the midst of the garden, and the tree of knowledge of good and evil.


It was only the 'tree of knowledge' that God said they could not eat of:

Gen 2:16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

Gen 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

Adam could have FREELY taken of the tree of life, but he CHOSE not to...it is the same today, for all men:


Rev 22:14 Blessed [are] they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Rev 22:15 For without [are] dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.


Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, [and] the bright and morning star.

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

Jesus is the new covenant, and He is the TREE of LIFE.

You said something had to / has to occur in order to have a right to the tree of life.

[graceandpeace]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You said something had to / has to occur in order to have a right to the tree of life.

Yes, you must freely choose...to partake of it...by faith.

That means, all anyone has to do, is take that leap of faith, and BELIEVE.

It is after the Holy Spirit enters you that you are ABLE to submit to works of love, however.

We can do nothing of ourself....(without Him)...concerning works.

For without Him, they are filthy rags...(any work).

It must be rooted in love/via the Holy Spirit...flo from a changed heart that is walking in love, and then it is acceptable.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by graceandpeace

Yes, you must freely choose...to partake of it...by faith.

That means, all anyone has to do, is take that leap of faith, and BELIEVE.

It is after the Holy Spirit enters you that you are ABLE to submit to works of love, however.

We can do nothing of ourself....(without Him)...concerning works.

For without Him, they are filthy rags...(any work).

It must be rooted in love/via the Holy Spirit...flo from a changed heart that is walking in love, and then it is acceptable.

There is something we choose to do, by faith.

You are saying we are choosing to partake of the tree of life. And that we only have a right to it by keeping the commandments.

I'm trying to decipher this that you are saying. I don't have a Biblical understanding of your words. I believe I may have suspected something before in the things you say about the tree of life. I don't have all the answers. I don't have the answer here. But maybe with time we can work it out if you are not completely confident or if I can't see how what you are saying is Biblical or whatever.