Slogan/motto:
In order to fly, one must encounter some resistance
Reputation:
I lost my faith a while back -
March 27th, 2012, 12:55 PM
My name is Spectrox. I am from the UK.
I lost my Christian faith about 15 years ago.
I would now consider myself either an agnostic or an atheist or an agnostic atheist depending on my mood and the definitions being used.
I am much more skeptical about religion and spirituality than I used to be (obviously) and I reckon I am more logical and rational now than when I believed Jesus was my saviour.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 01:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
I lost my Christian faith about 15 years ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
I reckon I am more logical and rational now than when I believed Jesus was my saviour.
The backhanded insult aside, assuming intent, I'd suggest this may be why you lost your faith between here and there. You didn't have a very good grip on it.
I would now consider myself either an agnostic or an atheist or an agnostic atheist depending on my mood and the definitions being used.
I am much more skeptical about religion and spirituality than I used to be (obviously) and I reckon I am more logical and rational now than when I believed Jesus was my saviour.
I am certainly happier.
I enjoy honest debate.
Welcome! Are you over 35 years old now?
"I believe in Christianity, as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
"Don't believe that there's nothing that's true, don't believe in this modern machine." Switchfoot
Slogan/motto:
In order to fly, one must encounter some resistance
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 01:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryContrary
The backhanded insult aside, assuming intent, I'd suggest this may be why you lost your faith between here and there. You didn't have a very good grip on it.
It wasn't intended as an insult. I was speaking honestly about my own experience now compared to when I had faith.
Do you think a person who has Christian faith is as logical and rational as one who does not? Is there something superior about being logical and rational? Maybe there isn't? Jesus said that people who have not seen but still believe are more blessed than those who have seen and believed (Doubting Thomas story after the resurrection).
I personally don't believe faith is a virtue anymore. But I could be wrong.
And in terms of losing my grip on faith - I felt it wasn't worth holding on to, so why would I continue holding on to it?
Last edited by Spectrox War; March 27th, 2012 at 01:54 PM.
Reason: Wanted to add a bit after posting
Because people come here a lot with their deconversion story and about how devout they were as Christians. But then we find out they were 13 years old, so it just doesn't mean very much. But not so in your case.
"I believe in Christianity, as I believe the sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else." C.S. Lewis
"Don't believe that there's nothing that's true, don't believe in this modern machine." Switchfoot
With that username I figured it was that or a discothèque.
Quote:
I lost my Christian faith about 15 years ago.
I believe I can help. Where was the last place you remember having it?
Quote:
I would now consider myself either an agnostic or an atheist or an agnostic atheist depending on my mood and the definitions being used.
Stands to reason.
Quote:
I am much more skeptical about religion and spirituality than I used to be (obviously) and I reckon I am more logical and rational now than when I believed Jesus was my saviour.
Let's test that hypothesis: do you feel that's inextricably linked and logically follows or are you merely stating a particular distinction for you?
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 02:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
It wasn't intended as an insult. I was speaking honestly about my own experience now compared to when I had faith.
Well, just so you know, the implication is there. Intentional or no.
But, hey. Maybe I'm just easily provoked. It's been said.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
Do you think a person who has Christian faith is as logical and rational as one who does not?
I haven't done the research or crunched the numbers but from what I've seen there's no correlation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
Is there something superior about being logical and rational? Maybe there isn't? Jesus said that people who have not seen but still believe are more blessed than those who have seen and believed (Doubting Thomas story after the resurrection).
I'm not seeing how believing in something you haven't seen is illogical or irrational.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
I personally don't believe faith is a virtue anymore. But I could be wrong.
Like most things it's in how you apply it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectrox War
And in terms of losing my grip on faith - I felt it wasn't worth holding on to, so why would I continue holding on to it?
I submit that you felt it not worth holding onto because you didn't come by it rationally.
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 10:10 If the ax is dull, And one does not sharpen the edge, Then he must use more strength; But wisdom brings success.
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
Not if you're more logical you aren't.
I think you meant "rational" here, yeah? I don't see being logical as quite so mutually exclusive with happiness as it is rationality. I can quite happily come to a logical conclusion, while I'd have a difficult time happily coming to a rational one.
Slogan/motto:
In order to fly, one must encounter some resistance
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
With that username I figured it was that or a discothèque.
It's actually taken from an old Dr Who episode.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
I believe I can help. Where was the last place you remember having it?
Where? I don't know. I believed Jesus was my saviour and read the Bible everyday after catching the Christian bug. I was very intense about it for several months. But then I began to read stuff in the Bible that I didn't believe was true or could no longer support. I had an inner deconversion struggle for months. So there was no sudden a'ha moment when I lost it. It was a gradual realisation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
Stands to reason.
Yeah. I suppose.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
Let's test that hypothesis: do you feel that's inextricably linked and logically follows or are you merely stating a particular distinction for you?
I think the rational skeptical part of my brain was not happy with the answers I was getting to questions I had. Answers from other Christians or the Bible itself. I came to the conclusion that I had a delusion. Hey. That sounds like a song lyric!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic
Not if you're more logical you aren't.
Ignorance is bliss you mean? I am happier that I am more honest with myself and that I listened to myself and had the courage to admit I was wrong.
I think you meant "rational" here, yeah? I don't see being logical as quite so mutually exclusive with happiness as it is rationality. I can quite happily come to a logical conclusion, while I'd have a difficult time happily coming to a rational one.
Either, to my mind, though rational is the clearer of the two for my point. So thanks.
Just a note regarding some of the notes on this new posters opening statement:
RE: Atheism, logically.
Being skeptical doesn't constrain one to be forever doubting and never accepting. That said, let me also say that skepticism is always a more logical approach than credulity (although it is certainly not favored by our more baser instincts). By the very fact that a religious person is unwilling to view their own religious beliefs through a skeptical lens (although they are only more than happy to oblige using a skeptical filter for other peoples religious beliefs), it stands to reason that an atheistic (the simple withholding of a belief on god) approach is more logical.
Believing in god because it makes you feel good/happier, is not logical. And pointing this out as a matter of fact is not insulting.
Slogan/motto:
In order to fly, one must encounter some resistance
Reputation:
March 27th, 2012, 02:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryContrary
I'm not seeing how believing in something you haven't seen is illogical or irrational.
These days I need good evidence before I believe any claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryContrary
Like most things it's in how you apply it.
Maybe? It depends what the nature of the faith is though? And the validity of that faith can only IMO be determined by evidence and reasoned argument. Otherwise, to me, it's just random and meaningless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaryContrary
I submit that you felt it not worth holding onto because you didn't come by it rationally.
I came by my faith emotionally - and the words of the Bible and Christians around me resonated with me at that time.
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