[dave3712]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

How could He be created if He was born of a woman?
How could He be created if God (Word) became flesh?
That isn't a creation, it's Incarnation.

If we read Mat 3:16-7 closely we see that a spirit, God, came down from heaven and like a dove, alighted onto Jesus transfiguring him in the son-of-God.


16And Jesus, when he was baptized , went upstraightway out of the water: and, lo , the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by surrender

I agree.

Amen and amen. I agree.

I agree.

I don’t know that I would say we should attribute that to his “divine nature.” I would say we should attribute that to his divine identity.

Yes, Jesus was/is the word of God become flesh. But I don’t know about this usage of the word “nature.” I’m not sure what that means. Jesus was a fully genuine man and he shared his identity with God/Yahweh, the invisible God dwelling in approachable light. How that is, I don’t know, but that’s what Scripture claims. To say that it’s because of his “other nature” that he was God, I don’t really know that that even means.

Just because he knew all men and what was in man does not mean he was infinite. It’s not possible that he was infinite. What was given to him was given to him by the Father who is infinite.

I'll address this last point first.

When you say infinite and recognize that as an atribute of God alone, you're correct. So the Word, which was God from the beginning, created all things....then became flesh and dwelt among us in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. In His humanity, Jesus had a beginning. But, in His deity, He created all things.

Paul compares Adam with Christ. Adam is said to be "natural" or earthy...of the earth. The second man (last Adam) is the Lord (God) from heaven. We know Jesus was born of woman, but He told us He came from heaven. That speaks to His dual nature. God is not created or born. Man is both. God is eternal. Man isn't. God is everywhere at once. Man is not. God is all powerful. Man is not.

1 Cor. 15:45-48
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

This verse is great. It shows Jesus came down from heaven, yet is IN HEAVEN even as Jesus is speaking these words. Only God can be in two places at the same time.

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

I'll address this last point first.

When you say infinite and recognize that as an atribute of God alone, you're correct. So the Word, which was God from the beginning, created all things....then became flesh and dwelt among us in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. In His humanity, Jesus had a beginning. But, in His deity, He created all things.

Paul compares Adam with Christ. Adam is said to be "natural" or earthy...of the earth. The second man (last Adam) is the Lord (God) from heaven. We know Jesus was born of woman, but He told us He came from heaven. That speaks to His dual nature. God is not created or born. Man is both. God is eternal. Man isn't. God is everywhere at once. Man is not. God is all powerful. Man is not.

1 Cor. 15:45-48
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

This verse is great. It shows Jesus came down from heaven, yet is IN HEAVEN even as Jesus is speaking these words. Only God can be in two places at the same time.

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Great post bro!

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by dave3712

If we read Mat 3:16-7 closely we see that a spirit, God, came down from heaven and like a dove, alighted onto Jesus transfiguring him in the son-of-God.


16And Jesus, when he was baptized , went upstraightway out of the water: and, lo , the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

If you look even closer, you'll see He was conceived by the Holy Spirit. Jesus wasn't "transfigured" into the Son of God at His baptism. He was the Son of God because of His miraculous conception. He had no human father...being born of a virgin.

Matt. 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.


Luke 1:35
And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all the righteousness (of the Law) as He was anointed for the priesthood at the beginning of His ministry.

His birth was foretold...

Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

[surrender]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

So the Word, which was God from the beginning, created all things.

The word of God did not create all things through God; God created all things through His word. Agreed?

In His humanity, Jesus had a beginning. But, in His deity, He created all things.

I’m not completely sure what you mean when you say “in his deity.” Sometimes he is “in his deity” and sometimes he is “in his humanity”? What does that mean? Does he switch back and forth between them?

Paul compares Adam with Christ. Adam is said to be "natural" or earthy...of the earth. The second man (last Adam) is the Lord (God) from heaven. We know Jesus was born of woman, but He told us He came from heaven. That speaks to His dual nature.

Where does it say anything about “nature”?

[Lazy afternoon]

Jesus was Christed at his baptism, and the anoining was not upon Him at the cross.

Jesus only had one nature and it was that nature which was made to conform to God by Gods word to Him over the 30 years.

That is how the word of God became flesh all 42 books of it.

LA

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

We don't have two natures, but we can partake in the divine nature that dwells in us when we are adopted (through faith) as children of God.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.




Jesus wasn't given the express image of God...He was the express image of God. The Word, which was God, BECAME FLESH and dwelt among us in the person of Jesus Christ.

The fulness of the Godhead took up residence in the temple (which is the body) of Jesus of Nazareth.

Colossians 2:9
For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Jesus told us, He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. The Spirit of Truth that was Christ, now dwells in the believer. We do not have a divine nature, but we can partake of that nature.

John 15:26
But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:


John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He is not God, he is the Image of God

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Express Image, being MADE better than the angles. That is a created being

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Note: FORM of God is not God

2Co 4:4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Note: image of God, not God.

but the image Jesus was given was the exact spirit image of his father. that is why he is a FORM of God.

Paul tells you in Romans that we have a war going on IN us. Our natural instints are to sin but his spirit is not to. that is what I was trying to show abut our two natures. One our flesh the other the spirit.

[keypurr]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

I'll address this last point first.

When you say infinite and recognize that as an atribute of God alone, you're correct. So the Word, which was God from the beginning, created all things....then became flesh and dwelt among us in the person of Jesus of Nazareth. In His humanity, Jesus had a beginning. But, in His deity, He created all things.

Paul compares Adam with Christ. Adam is said to be "natural" or earthy...of the earth. The second man (last Adam) is the Lord (God) from heaven. We know Jesus was born of woman, but He told us He came from heaven. That speaks to His dual nature. God is not created or born. Man is both. God is eternal. Man isn't. God is everywhere at once. Man is not. God is all powerful. Man is not.

1 Cor. 15:45-48
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man is the Lord from heaven. As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.

This verse is great. It shows Jesus came down from heaven, yet is IN HEAVEN even as Jesus is speaking these words. Only God can be in two places at the same time.

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

Yep, a good post. Jesus had that spirit I talk about.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by surrender

The word of God did not create all things through God; God created all things through His word. Agreed?

I’m not completely sure what you mean when you say “in his deity.” Sometimes he is “in his deity” and sometimes he is “in his humanity”? What does that mean? Does he switch back and forth between them?

Where does it say anything about “nature”?

No one says it better than John.

John 1:1-3
In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

The same (Word) was in the beginning with God.

All things were made by him (Word);
and without him (Word) was not any thing made that was made.

So my answer would have to be, All things were made by the Word who was God.

I see no "through" there at all. There are other verses that use "by" "for" and "through" Jesus Christ when speaking of creation. Jesus is credited with creating all things, and that fits perfectly with the Word creating all things.

I’m not completely sure what you mean when you say “in his deity.” Sometimes he is “in his deity” and sometimes he is “in his humanity”? What does that mean? Does he switch back and forth between them?

Where does it say anything about “nature”?

Earthy is human and heavenly is Divine.

God does things that men can't do. One of those things is never having to sleep. But, unfortunatley, I do have to sleep, so I'll have to wait until my brain wakes up in the morning to think of a way to answer you. Maybe one of my compatriots will give you the answer you deserve before I return.

[surrender]

Originally Posted by keypurr

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

He is not God, he is the Image of God

Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

Express Image, being MADE better than the angles. That is a created being

It doesn’t say “being created” better than the angels. Jesus was made better than the angels in that “God made him both Lord and Christ" (Acts 2:36).

Php 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Php 2:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Note: FORM of God is not God

Yes and no. Although John 1:1 suggests that the word is not exactly God, it also tells us that the word is God. Just as my words are not exactly me, they are me to the extent they reveal me. But certainly my words are not a “person” apart from me, and God’s word is not a “person” apart from Him.

[surrender]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

So my answer would have to be, All things were made by the Word who was God.

I see no "through" there at all. There are other verses that use "by" "for" and "through" Jesus Christ when speaking of creation.

Check out the Greek; it’s the same word for all of them. God’s word is not a “person” apart from Him.

Earthy is human and heavenly is Divine.

God does things that men can't do. One of those things is never having to sleep. But, unfortunatley, I do have to sleep, so I'll have to wait until my brain wakes up in the morning to think of a way to answer you. Maybe one of my compatriots will give you the answer you deserve before I return.

Okay, goodnight.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by surrender

But certainly my words are not a “person” apart from me, and God’s word is not a “person” apart from Him.

John used the term "Logos" in the Hellenistic sense of the term denoting the Supreme Being and Governor and appliying it to Christ..

1:1 the Word The term "Word" (Greek logos) designates God the Son with respect to His deity; "Jesus" and "Christ" refer to His incarnation and saving work. During the first three centuries, doctrines of the person of Christ focused intensly on His position as the Logos. In Greek philosophy the Logos was "reason" or "logic" as an abstract force that brought order and harmony to the universe. But in John's writings such qualities are gathered in the Person of Christ. In Neo-Platonic philosophy and the Gnostic heresy (second and third centuries), the Logos was seen as one of the intermediate powers between God and the world. Such notions are far removed from the simplicity of John's gospel.

In this verse the Word is expressly affirmed to be God. The Word existed already "in the beginning" (a clear reference to the opening words of the Bible), which is a way of denoting the eternity that is unique to God. John states clearly, "the Word was God."

Geneva Study Bible, page 1658

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by keypurr

I agree somewhat, but the HS should guide your life if you let it. And if the HS is in us we have two natures also, our sinful and his holy. Hopefully we let his spirit run our lives for us.

The Holy Spirit WILL NEVER go contrary of what is in the Word of God.

Originally Posted by keypurr

The image spirit that Jesus had is not like what he gives us. As far as measure goes. I think you still do not understand my theory. Man being made in the image of God is one thing. Man being given the express image of God is another. One is man, the other is man in the form of God.

Your theory goes against what the Bible says. You need to check you belief system; that's where your confusion lies.

Originally Posted by keypurr

Jesus was man in the form of God for he had the express image spirit of God IN him.

He was the only man ever given that spirit.

I pray the Holy Spirit open your eyes so that you can come back to believing what the Word of God says about Jesus and stop making your own theories and stop creating your new ideas and coming up with your own new solutions; all of which goes against the Word of God.

If you do not believe what the Word of God says, how do you expect a little puny human could 'prove' anything to you that you would accept to trump your own made up theories?

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by keypurr

If you think that then you have no idea what I have been saying.

Probably because it goes against the grain of the Word of God.

Originally Posted by keypurr

Tell me why Jesus had to grow in wisdom if he was born god?

Because He decided to put aside His Deity for a time --- He never lost His Deity --- to come down here and be born as one of us so that He could be our kinsman/redeemer. The ones who accept what He did for them on the Cross can be saved by Him; the ones who reject what He did will be lost --- by their own volition.

Originally Posted by keypurr

Give me the verses and the logic. If he was god at birth he would have known all.

Go back and find all the responses from all the others here and you will see all that you need to see. Better one yet, read John chapter 1 and BELIEVE what it says.

Originally Posted by keypurr

More information brings more knowledge. The more you hear/read the more you know.

That is why having too much peripheral information gets your belief system in trouble. You have enough information, so the problem is not with having the information; it is your --- belief system.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

Jesus was Christed at his baptism, and the anoining was not upon Him at the cross.

Jesus only had one nature and it was that nature which was made to conform to God by Gods word to Him over the 30 years.

That is how the word of God became flesh all 42 books of it.

LA

And if you believe that the anointing was not upon Him at the Cross, that he only had one nature, described in only 42 books, then we are of all men most miserable, because then just a man died and not Jesus Christ.

For God to accept Jesus' work on the Cross Jesus had to be more than a mere man. He also had to be God. That we like it or not, that we understand it fully or not, is totally irrelevant. If it is not so, then any man would have been OK to be used by God just like the Word of Faith people proclaim.

No, this man, Jesus, He had to be more than a mere man, much, much more than a mere man! He was, He was also Christ.

His two natures:

human = Jesus

divine = Christ