toldailytopic: Is belief in the trinity necessary for salvation?
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Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
I hate being sick! Medicine leaves me less then adequate. Maybe someone will come and defend me or take my place. I am so sick right now. i, just pray for me/love me at the moment, this is terrible! you know how cold medicine affects the brain.
Get some rest Lon so you can feel better. God is in control of His Kingdom.
Having been a 'trin' for a short time, I don't want to disgrace them but shake them as to wake them.
There are times, I am sure, I come across really rude, but the angel smote Peter to wake him up. He must have been tired.
Acts 12:7
Rebuking them sharply may be the need.
Thanks for coming back to the arena.
Lions and tigers and bears, oh my!
Your presence is appreciated.
oatmeal
First time when I became His servant, I did not even know anything about the trinity doctrine, but when I realize how they have been using this doctrine to slander non-trins, I just dont trust their sincerity of their faith. Their doctrines are all centered in popularity to get peoples' approval and getting more members and power from the beginning of their history.
Ooo! a damned heretic! Not just a heretic, but a damned one!
I know God will like that! Are you going to forbid that speak or teach in the name of Jesus Christ?
God is greater than all. Do you know what that means?
It means that God is greater than all.
That is why Jesus Christ had no problem with being subordinate to God, because God is greater than Jesus Christ.
In some characteristics, all believers, including Jesus Christ are equal to God, because of God's love and grace and mercy to believers, including Jesus Christ.
God is greater than all.
oatmeal
You avoided everything I said. You can't answer me because my doctrine is the orthodoxy of the scriptures and the holy fathers.
Wrong on all counts. Read the original nicene creed. It says, "of the essence". Not "the ONE same nature" or the one substance. Nicene Creed teaches generic unity not numeric unity. The nicene creed teaches 3 beings, 3 things. The one God is the Father-auto-theos. The other two extend from the One God;'s nature and are subordinate, not at the level of nature but at the level of person. You believe in only one person. It is sabellian heresy.
I do not believe in modalism. Essence=nature=substance=being. The creed does not say it all and is subject to interpretation. It does not read 3 beings, but 3 personal distinctions. Read the Athanasian creed for even greater clarity (google it).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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March 31st, 2012, 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
I do not believe in modalism. Essence=nature=substance=being. The creed does not say it all and is subject to interpretation. It does not need 3 beings, but 3 personal distinctions. Read the Athanasian creed for even greater clarity (google it).
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
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". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
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March 31st, 2012, 06:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
I do not believe in modalism. Essence=nature=substance=being. The creed does not say it all and is subject to interpretation. It does not need 3 beings, but 3 personal distinctions. Read the Athanasian creed for even greater clarity (google it).
One of your best posts.
Thanks.
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
I do not believe in modalism. Essence=nature=substance=being.
You are just ignoring what I just said. By essence or substance do you mean numeric or generic.
Quote:
The creed does not say it all and is subject to interpretation. It does not read 3 beings, but 3 personal distinctions.
So lets flesh it out. If the substance is numeric then there could only be one person because substance= subject. One subject, one person. That is the meaning of numeric substance.
Quote:
Read the Athanasian creed for even greater clarity (google it).
The thing that you and most Western Christians do not understand is the Father's Monarchy/personal property.
What led me back to the original explanation of the Trinity was reading the Gordon Clark-Van Til Controversy. What shocks me is that Clark never connected the dots that his generic unity espoused in his book on the Trinity was a radical departure from Western Theology proper and Filioque. Vincent Cheung is a real sharp guy and he never saw this either. Since I have introduced this issue to Scripturalists every one of them have come around to the original Greek view. For crying out loud, Augustine even titled his 9th Chapter of De Trinitate, "All are Sometimes Understood in One Person". Van Til was just saying what Augustine said.
Augustine taught a view of God that was different from the original Nicene Creed and though Augustine was correct in his refutation of Pelagius, the West has taken that and run with both the baby and the bathwater.
"Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus."
God is spirit, God is invisible, Jesus Christ is not, because that is why they could see and touch Jesus.
Jesus Christ is not God.
It is maybe too simple for your "educated" mind to comprehend.
God's word is that simple, I think that is why so many trins miss the simple truths. They think truth has to be complicated.
oatmeal
Okay, I'm off of nyquil at the moment. ▲This still could have been written better, though I get it. The issues have been addressed often enough. The main point that I would underscore is this:
The triune view is the least developed. It simply takes into account scriptures we have been given and stops there believing them.
Every single other position on the matter is deductive, which means that it is necessarily 'man making sense of what he sees,' and most importantly, 'beyond what is clearly given.'
That needs a repeat: Every non-triune potion goes beyond the texts of God-given scripture without God's permission.
Consider: Jesus receives worship as God and scripture uses His name and God's interchangeably (Colossians 1 Genesis 1 ; Isaiah 9 and 53; etc.)
The Spirit of God is called God and is also involved in creation (Genesis 1:1-2).
And yet, we know there is only one God. We know that Son talks to Father, and that the Spirit is described as a person.
The triune view is simply this: We just believe all of the above because they are all scriptures from God. "How does all this work?" None of my (or your) business until/unless God makes it my business. Until such a time, let's keep our big noses out of His business (and mine as I try to stay out of it as well, that's the triune stance after all).
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
March 31st, 2012, 03:29 PM
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