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There is this rule, you know, where the priest goes into the H of H with a rope tied around his waist or leg just in case he, the priest messes up and his dead body has to be recovered.
So it is not in the Bible or in Josephus and it is not "Tradition". How exactly is the Thatch Weave to be classified?
It is a delusion.
And what is it that creates the delusion? (Now this is where I would normally break off to allow the audience time to join the discussion. But Theology Online is getting tired of me. So at the risk of acting like a "blogster" I will just go ahead and tell you what has created the delusion.)
The destruction of Jerusalem and more importantly the destruction of Herod's Temple by the Roman general Titus in 70.
The delusion could not have been around before 70 because they had a priest performing the ceremony. Further analysis would show that the delusion could not have taken hold until at least 40 years after 70 because the survivors of the OT failure would have memory.
They had lost the Temple before. Why the delusion this time? (Again I would break off but think "blogster" mode.)
No. I think that I will break off here. If you don't like what is being said then pull the plug.
We have this long long long long long history of Israel. And I was just wondering-
Did they ever have any allies? (We could use the word "friends" instead of "allies" but the word "friend" carries certain connotations with it. Such as-if you are better than everyone else how in the world could you have friends?) So we just want to know who their allies were.
Problem speaking again?
Maybe we can get to the bottom of it in another way?
I say Rome was not the "bad guy". Israel was the "bad guy". Rome was not after Palestine. Rome did not even want to be bothered by Palestine. Rome was a Mediterranean power. Nothing to say about this? Then there is one more question-
Where did they get the financing? You know. The money to build Herod's Temple. That building that rivaled any Roman structure. Did they get the money selling chickens? Is that going to be your answer?
chrysostom has stated a common response. But will it hold water?
Does history repeat itself?
As I was saying-
Rome was a Mediterranean power. They did invade Palestine. But they set their headquarters on the coast and not in Jerusalem. Now think about the military and economic situation from Rome's point of view-
For Rome to be an empire they had to have safe and dependable shipping. Rome had to have food shipped to them from across the Sea. Therefore the Mediterranean was enveloped. To control the Mediterranean they had to control the coast. To control the coast they had to control the land surrounding the coast. The Romans could not have Caesarea being attacked from the rear. So Jerusalem had to be a non-threat. To Rome Jerusalem was a side show. The Mediterranean was the prize.
chrysostom has stated a common response. But will it hold water?
Does history repeat itself?
As I was saying-
Rome was a Mediterranean power. They did invade Palestine. But they set their headquarters on the coast and not in Jerusalem. Now think about the military and economic situation from Rome's point of view-
For Rome to be an empire they had to have safe and dependable shipping. Rome had to have food shipped to them from across the Sea. Therefore the Mediterranean was enveloped. To control the Mediterranean they had to control the coast. To control the coast they had to control the land surrounding the coast. The Romans could not have Caesarea being attacked from the rear. So Jerusalem had to be a non-threat. To Rome Jerusalem was a side show. The Mediterranean was the prize.
It does not take a genius to figure out where Rome got money. But it looks like finding the source of Jerusalem cash is not going to be so easy after all.
Supposedly the sacrifices during the construction phase of Herod's temple continued unabated. Also supposedly, a specialized type of priest group were the ones doing the actual construction on the grounds of the temple. What happened was that the temple authorities worked out all the details ahead of time as to how things were to happen on the temple mount.
Now the Old Testament says that even a mule is worthy of his hire. And King Herod the Great would be no different than any other mule so the Jerusalem authorities would not only have to have negotiated with the mule Herod but also pay the mule. Herod would have to have the money first.
The temple would be the biggest building project of the first century before the birth of Christ. It would take an enormous amount of cash. Herod would have to hire the best architects from around the world just to figure out how to begin. The best stone masons. The best carpenters. Untold amounts of supplies and unskilled laborers. And everyone would have to be fed and housed and paid.
The building phase would last longer than most of the ones who started it would live. These people would have to make arrangements for the work to continue even after they were all dead. Which means all the cash would have to already be there for the next generation.
They had to give this huge sum of money to King Herod the Great. In order to do that they had to trust King Herod the Great. Not only did they trust King Herod the Great with money but when Herod came up onto the mount to see how the work progressed they had to trust that King Herod the Great would not pollute the sanctuary grounds.
There was one other thing that King Herod the Great was useful for-
Even the Jerusalem authorities had to get a building permit. They had to ask Rome for permission to build the new temple.
You just have to ask yourself-
Why Rome would ever consider letting Jerusalem build an almost impregnable fortress in the rears of Caesarea? The Romans would have to have a very good reason or else they were very stupid.
The Romans were not stupid.
So the Jerusalem authorities sent the mule King Herod the Great to bring them back the necessary permits. The reason they sent the mule is simple. Herod was friends with Rome. He had a working relationship with Rome. Jerusalem had no friends.
The temple is the proof that King Herod the Great was a strong ally of the Jerusalem authorities.
Starring-
King Herod the Great as Admiral Nagumo
General Titus as Frank Jack Fletcher
glew as Commander Joseph John Rochefort
The Red Baron as Airman Thach leader of the Wildcats
The High Priest as Lt. Commander Tadashi Nakajima leader of the Zeroes
Introduction-The combined forces of the Imperial Temple guard and that of the Hero-dians is known for their strong punch. And while the Imperial Temple guard can now enter the H of H without fear of loss and the Hero-dians are able to out build even the Romans seemingly without any money the two are about to be introduced to the Thach Weave!
Red Baron to his Wildcats: I will pull them forward by their thread and when they get broadside you guys blast them.
The High Priest to his "Zeroes": That Rotten Red Baron and those Wacky Wildcats!
There is something that needs to be made clear-
The Old Testament is on the ground. I am standing over it. Grinding it into the dust. You just stand there and watch me.
Assessment-
I have asked you two questions in order to allow you an opportunity to defend your book.
1 Where did the money come from to build Herod's temple?
2 Why would the Romans allow an almost impregnable fortress to be built right in the rears of Caesarea?
On some level I agree with you that the Old Testament is not worth defending. But your position is clear. So maybe there is something wrong with my questions. Just maybe they are not personal enough. Let us get a little more personal then-
When I was a kid my mother sent me to Vacation Bible School in the summer. We would play games and have cake. And they would teach us about all the bible stories. And I ask you-
Why would God allow an almost impregnable fortress to be built in my heart right in the shadow of the Cross?
"Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men."
Have you got any proof that the above took place?
(Don't worry. I am not going to ask you to defend Matthew and the New Testament. After your dismal showing in defending the OT that would be somewhat of a farce.)
But-
Have you ever wondered why there are these "groups" of "far right" "Christian" "organizations" that are based on "conspiracy theories"?
Well. How about it? If Matthew is speaking the truth about King Herod the Great and Bethlehem Judah then-
The suppression of supporting historical accounts would be a conspiracy.
Or-
Matthew is lying.
Now, we can't expect any regular Christian to explain Matthew and Herod the Great. (They might get their hands dirty. Then they would not be able to enter the temple.) No, we will have to turn to the outcasts.
1 Where did the money come from to build Herod's temple?
I'm excited now.
You can't just throw questions up like this.
Where did the money come from?
What are the options?
(1) The Romans
(2) The "Jews"
(3) Other more secretive groups:
a) Iranians? ("Magi appear with gold"! ...is this a garbled bit of history now lost?)
b) Ancient Istraelite Stash found by Herodians and looted?
c) Egyptian treasure (previously looted from Egypt during Exodus?)
d) European banker/investors talked into a scam?
Enquiring minds want to know, and they also want to know why the other options have been 'eliminated' and how.
Quote:
2 Why would the Romans allow an almost impregnable fortress to be built right in the rears of Caesarea?
Um, it was a Roman fortress?
I don't want to be obvious, but is there a historical problem,
given that the Roman garrisons occupied this fortress?
I'm still puzzled as to exactly what is the big deal with these two questions.
Where is it going?
Don't keep us in suspense so long that we fall asleep!
"But if anyone, even an angel from heaven,
were to preach any other gospel than that of
Jesus the Christ, crucified, buried, and
raised from the dead by God the Father,
to deliver us from this present evil world,
let that false preacher be accursed.' (Gal 1:1-4,8-9)
When I was a kid my mother sent me to Vacation Bible School in the summer. We would play games and have cake. And they would teach us about all the bible stories. And I ask you-
Why would God allow an almost impregnable fortress to be built in my heart right in the shadow of the Cross?
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