God did not say "in the day that thou eatest thereof I will surely kill you"
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Doesn't it bother you that none of what you just said can be proven from scripture? The invention of "spiritual death" creates more problems than it solves.
For instance, can you show from Scripture where Adam lost the indwelling of God? It appears God had to come to the garden "in the cool of the day" and walk with him. From Scripture, we see that God's relationship to Adam was external, as all human to God relationships were before the Cross.
Why is it then that the word "death" refers to physical death in the bible in 100% of the cases? God was speaking of physical death, as we see in Romans 5:12-14. Adam brought sin and physical death on all his seed. It has nothing to do with spiritual death, unless you are a calvinist and need that to prop up your theology.
You have a different definition of spiritual death than I do. The one I believe in and not your strawman is completely scriptural.
Why is it then that the word "death" refers to physical death in the bible in 100% of the cases? God was speaking of physical death, as we see in Romans 5:12-14. Adam brought sin and physical death on all his seed. It has nothing to do with spiritual death, unless you are a calvinist and need that to prop up your theology.
Because your statement is simply false. The bible talks about other types of death than physical. Pauls letters are replete with the idea.
Slogan/motto:
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Ro 3:26
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 06:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire
You have a different definition of spiritual death than I do. The one I believe in and not your strawman is completely scriptural.
Can you show me?
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. If you deny that basic truth, you cannot be saved. God came to save you, you cannot be saved if you do not believe in Him as He is.
[="http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231383&postcount=1"]Satan, Inc. (TOL's heretic's list)[/url]
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 06:04 PM
Answer:
When men are legally condemned for crimes, and sentenced to death, they are no longer free to enjoy the rights of citizenship; nor do they have any means by which they can overturn their sentence or ever be free to live their lives pleasing to the rulers of their persons.
Such describes "spiritual death."
All men possess a human spirit and consciousness of right and wrong, but because of the legal imputation of guilt imposed upon all mankind, no man is spiritually able or willing to serve the righteous things of God. Unregenerate sinners are unable to employ their natural spirit or bodies in obedience or faith to please God.
Any sinner is declared dead in his trespasses and sins for this reason. All sinners are consigned under the curse of a death sentence and are unable to reverse this curse.
Only Jesus Christ being sent to remove that curse, and substitutionally serve that legal death sentence on behalf of who He wills, frees the human spirit to serve its Maker as it should.
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
Slogan/motto:
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Ro 3:26
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by voltaire
Because your statement is simply false. The bible talks about other types of death than physical. Pauls letters are replete with the idea.
Can you show me?
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. If you deny that basic truth, you cannot be saved. God came to save you, you cannot be saved if you do not believe in Him as He is.
[="http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231383&postcount=1"]Satan, Inc. (TOL's heretic's list)[/url]
Then why do you falsely accuse others of hate on the Koinonia thread, and misrepresent Gods Fatherheart to them.
LA
The proof that they are liars [and we are not called to fellowship with liars] is in the very word KOINONIA itself for they make it clear over and again as do you, Meshak,keypurr, jerzy, oatmeal and others that they want NOTHING to do with the church that believes that Christ is God, which is the whole church of which I am member. It is clear therefore that it is THEY who shun KOINONIA.
The whole thing from start to end is deceit. They came in sheep's clothing among God's flock but they are ravenous wolves. We are to cry out against such if we love the brethren...that is what love does.
That is also the reason why Adam did not die physically that day. God meant spiritual death. This is why every person born of Adam's seed is dead as well. So, the protest against the idead that sin is not genetic is an argument against a strawman. It isn't that everyone is born with indwelling sin; it's that everyone is born spiritually dead, innocent and not guilty of anything, but dead nevertheless.
*
Absolutely their death was spiritual I agree, man is created in God's image in his spirit not in his flesh, the only thing I would add to this good response is that only since the cross has original sin been removed but men and women condemn themselves by not accepting eternal life when it is offered.
This is basis for the hope of a wider mercy than is current in evangelical thinking today.
Mercy, it was a mercy that God drave them from the garden lest they stretch forth their hand and eat of the tree of life and live forever in the most unhappy estate in which they now found themselves.
Adam was not saved by any temporary sacrifice, he was saved by faith in the promised seed, his obedience in the matter of the blood sacrifice proved his faith...it was a reaffirmation of God's word which in the garden he had disobeyed.
I see NOWHERE in the gospels one instance of Christ turning somebody away on the basis that it was not His will that they should be saved, He will turn nobody away today on that basis. To believe that He would is hyper predestination.
But that isn't what God said. He did not say "in the day that you eat from the tree, your physical death will be made sure". You made that up out of whole cloth.
Actually, I made that up out of SCRIPTURE, which explains itself. I don't have to impose this fake concept of "spiritual death" on the text
I don't care how systematic your theology is, until you show me how biblical it is.
2 Tim 2:15 Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
April 3rd, 2012, 11:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Choleric
Gonna have to side with Muz on this one. The theological invention of "spiritual death" is just that, a theological invention. The word "death" in Scripture means physical death. It has nothing to do with someone's spirit dying.
The wages of sin is death.
Are you claiming that when people die from old age they pay their wages for their sin?
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
April 3rd, 2012, 11:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by themuzicman
(OK, Nang and Choloric agree with me... something is wrong )
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Slogan/motto:
Isaiah 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Reputation:
April 3rd, 2012, 11:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elohiym
Are you claiming that when people die from old age they pay their wages for their sin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by themuzicman
Yes.
Please do think a bit harder about what you've just implicitly claimed.
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