[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by elohiym

Please do think a bit harder about what you've just implicitly claimed.

That death is the punishment for sin, because it deprives us of eternal life. If you think about it, dying of old age means welcoming the decay of one's body to the point where it cannot function. In a way, it is one of the most cruel deaths.

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by themuzicman

That death is the punishment for sin, because it deprives us of eternal life. If you think about it, dying of old age means welcoming the decay of one's body to the point where it cannot function. In a way, it is one of the most cruel deaths.

You're not making any sense, and it appears you have not yet grasped my point.

[Nang]

Originally Posted by elohiym

The wages of sin is death.

Are you claiming that when people die from old age they pay their wages for their sin?

If not, then you ought to side with Voltaire.

Don't forget to factor in the "second death!"

Physical death is caused by sin; the sting of physical death is guiltiness. However, physical death does not fully pay the debt owed to eternal God, which is eternal punishment in hellfire.

[themuzicman]

Originally Posted by elohiym

You're not making any sense, and it appears you have not yet grasped my point.

You haven't made a point, so there isn't one to be grasped. The text points to physical death, as this is the consequence of being separated from eternal life. How one dies does not change the fact that physical death is one consequence of Adam's sin.

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by themuzicman

You haven't made a point, so there isn't one to be grasped.

You responded to a point I made to Choleric, so don't start playing games saying I haven't made a point. The problem is you don't grasp the point made.

Originally Posted by themuzicman

The text points to physical death, as this is the consequence of being separated from eternal life.

The wages of sin (Ro 6:23) only speaks to the second death.

Originally Posted by themuzicman

How one dies does not change the fact that physical death is one consequence of Adam's sin.

Adam lived to 930 before experiencing the first death, but he was dead in his trangressions (second death) from the moment he ate from the forbidden tree.

You essentially believe that a person in Christ who dies at 83 is paying the wages of sin after Christ's sacrifice for sin. The position you hold is illogical.

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by Nang

Don't forget to factor in the "second death!"

That's the "wages of sin" I've been alluding to. However, you believe Jesus died the second death, so I'm not convinced you even understand what it is.

Originally Posted by Nang

Physical death is caused by sin

The wages of sin is not physical death, else everyone would pay their debt by dying, salvation would be universal, and the cross would be superfluous. The wages of sin is strictly the second death.

[voltaire]

Originally Posted by themuzicman

Yes. We were designed to have eternal life.

Adam lost the eternal life he was given at creation. What better word to describe that reality than the word "death"?

God could have said " In the day that you eat from the tree, you shall lose eternal life", and it would have meant the same thing.

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by themuzicman

We were designed to have eternal life.

In what way was Adam designed to have eternal life?

According to the story, Adam would have had to eat from a specific tree to have eternal life. It seems that, without partaking of the tree of life, he did not have eternal life.

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by elohiym

In what way was Adam designed to have eternal life?

According to the story, Adam would have had to eat from a specific tree to have eternal life. It seems that, without partaking of the tree of life, he did not have eternal life.

He was supposed to have access to the tree which was intended to keep him alive. And barring any sin, he would have lived forever.

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by Choleric

He was supposed to have access to the tree which was intended to keep him alive. And barring any sin, he would have lived forever.

Adam didn't die physically until he was 930 years old.

So which death are you talking about?

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by elohiym

Adam didn't die physically until he was 930 years old.

So which death are you talking about?

This one:

Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:


The purpose for the tree was to live forever. God punished Adam, and all of Adams descendants, by removing Adam from the garden so he would die.

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by elohiym

The wages of sin is death.

Are you claiming that when people die from old age they pay their wages for their sin?

They are reaping the curse of Adams sin:

Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

If not, then you ought to side with Voltaire.

I...just can't do it captain...I don't have the power...

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by Choleric

The purpose for the tree was to live forever. God punished Adam, and all of Adams descendants, by removing Adam from the garden so he would die.

You're being obtuse.

Adam didn't die physically until he was 930 years old.

[Choleric]

Originally Posted by elohiym

You're being obtuse.

Adam didn't die physically until he was 930 years old.

How am I being obtuse? You asked a question and I answered. Adam was going to "live forever" by eating the tree. That is what God said. God kicked Adam out of the garden for the very purpose that Adam would not live forever. Why is that obtuse? Who cares if he was 930? Maybe the effects of the last bite he got on his way out lasted a while?

Does it matter? Does his age change the facts I stated above and quoted from the bible?

[elohiym]

Originally Posted by elohiym

The wages of sin is death.

Are you claiming that when people die from old age they pay their wages for their sin?

Is the wages of sin physical death? Yes or no.

Do you still have to pay the wages of sin? Yes or no.