ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
I have tried. Is there any reason to think I might have better luck here?
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 03:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
I have tried. Is there any reason to think I might have better luck here?
Sure, I understand. You don't want to come right out and actually state your non sequitur, only to have it pointed out on a public forum. Can't say I blame you.
So you're right---you wouldn't have any better luck sneaking that fallacy by us here, than you have on any other thread.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Sure, I understand. You don't want to come right out and actually state your non sequitur, only to have it pointed out on a public forum. Can't say I blame you.
So you're right---you wouldn't have any better luck sneaking that fallacy by us here, than you have on any other thread.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
There is no fallacy thus there is no non sequitur. You have made a choice regarding what and who you will believe. So have I. The reason you claim any argument by a non-catholic is fallacious is because they do not accept some of your base doctrines and definitions. In your opinion, people who do not believe as you are wrong. There can be no meaningful discussion where one has already concluded the outcome.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 04:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
There is no fallacy thus there is no non sequitur.
Sure. That's why you've so far refused to actually state your point on this thread. Again, can't say I blame you.
Quote:
You have made a choice regarding what and who you will believe. So have I.
Of course, it isn't a matter of who we will believe, since we both affirm that we believe in and follow Jesus Christ as Savior. The issue is by what specific means we each presume to follow Christ. That's the difference.
Quote:
The reason you claim ANY argument by a non-catholic is fallacious...
Your statement right here is fallacious! The only time I point out that an anti-Catholic's argument is fallacious is when his argument is, in fact, fallacious. (Though I can certainly see why that might appear to you to involve "every" anti-Catholic argument.)
Quote:
In your opinion, people who do not believe as you are wrong.
And, in your opinion, people who do not believe as you are wrong, correct? In fact, my position is this: According to Jesus Christ, people who do not agree with his historic Church are wrong (Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
Quote:
There can be no meaningful discussion where one has already concluded the outcome.
...as you have done, correct?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
ASTOUNDING ignorance on Cruciform's part when it comes to what discussion boards are all about. It's amazing that he hasn't been permabanned for violating board rules so many times.
You would think that someone that says the are a devout catholic would continue to come here again and again and commit the same sin against his fellow man again and again.
All it proves is that Catholics sanction sin.. hence it sanctioned the abuse of the boys, etc... it thrives on sin.
Satan is going to have a field day with the likes of him.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 04:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
ASTOUNDING ignorance on Cruciform's part when it comes to what discussion boards are all about.It's amazing that he hasn't been permabanned for violating board rules so many times.You would think that someone that says the are a devout catholic would continue to come here again and again and commit the same sin against his fellow man again and again.All it proves is that Catholics sanction sin.. hence it sanctioned the abuse of the boys, etc it thrives on sin.
Wow. Can you hear me way out there on Pluto? Time to get back on your meds, champ...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Unless your remarried then your not eligable (unless you have onerous permission from the heiarchy, of which most peoples circumstances for divorce would not get them a waiver)
Sure. That's why you've so far refused to actually state your point on this thread. Again, can't say I blame you.
Please, enlighten us. If you know my point so well, by all means, make it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Of course, it isn't a matter of who we will believe, since we both affirm that we believe in and follow Jesus Christ as Savior. The issue is by what specific means we each presume to follow Christ. That's the difference.
And a trivial one at that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Your statement right here is fallacious! The only time I point out that an anti-Catholic's argument is fallacious is when his argument is, in fact, fallacious. (Though I can certainly see why that might appear to you to involve "every" anti-Catholic argument.)
IS any argument that does not agree with your early church fathers interpretations be a fallacious argument in your estimation?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
And, in your opinion, people who do not believe as you are wrong, correct? In fact, my position is this: According to Jesus Christ, people who do not agree with his historic Church are wrong (Lk. 10:16; Ac. 16:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
Wrong in what way? You believe in and affirm that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. That makes you a Christian. I do not agree with the doctrines of your church but that does not mean you are not a Christian.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
...as you have done, correct?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Incorrect. I am here discussing things all the time. I have learned some great tings from others and others have learned things from me. We are open to discussing theology. Others are not. Their position is staked and fortified and they will defend it to the death.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 05:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
Please, enlighten us. If you know my point so well, by all means, make it.
Nope, not gonna bite.
Quote:
And a trivial one at that.
Only to a trivial mind.
Quote:
IS any argument that does not agree with your early church fathers interpretations be a fallacious argument in your estimation?
You misunderstand. I don't conclude that such arguments are fallacious by comparing them with the Fathers (has that been your assumption all along?). They are fallacious from a logical, rational standpoint. In other words, such arguments are logicallly and rationally erroneous. They are structurally and internally corrupt and, as such, are essentially irrational.
Quote:
Wrong in what way?
In whatever sense thay happen to contradict or deny the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church (Ac. 16:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
Quote:
You believe in and affirm that Jesus is your Lord and Savior. That makes you a Christian. I do not agree with the doctrines of your church but that does not mean you are not a Christian.
I view things similarly.
Quote:
Incorrect.
It is "incorrect" that, with respect to the authoritative teachings of the historic Catholic Church, "you have already concluded the outcome"? Please let go of my leg.
Quote:
I am here discussing things all the time.
So am I---at least to the extent that you do.
Quote:
I have learned some great tings from others and others have learned things from me.
Same here---though to a comparatively lesser degree, since this is, after all, a decidedly anti-Catholic website.
Quote:
We are open to discussing theology. Others are not. Their position is staked and fortified and they will defend it to the death.
I see no real evidence on this forum that you don't fit that description yourself.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Hi , an maybe he has more important things to do , and I am doing his light work today and it is Interesting That there is no Greek word CHURCH in Matt 16:18 !!
So , what does EKKLESIA than mean in Matt 16:18 ??
So you really don't know what argument I might offer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Only to a trivial mind.
And a saved heart.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
You misunderstand. I don't conclude that such arguments are fallacious by comparing them with the Fathers (has that been your assumption all along?). They are fallacious from a logical, rational standpoint. In other words, such arguments are logicallly and rationally erroneous. They are structurally and internally corrupt and, as such, are essentially irrational.
So if I disagree with what the church fathers interpretations and pronouncements regarding scripture, am I being illogical or irrational?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
In whatever sense thay happen to contradict or deny the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church (Ac. 16:4; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
What happens when the Catholic church is wrong about something?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
I view things similarly.
It is "incorrect" that, with respect to the authoritative teachings of the historic Catholic Church, "you have already concluded the outcome"? Please let go of my leg.
Is it not true that anybody who does not agree with your strict understanding of what the Catholic church is automatically wrong? If so, then you have concluded that they are wrong regardless of what they might say.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
So am I---at least to the extent that you do.
That contradicts your stated purpose for your continued participation on this site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
Same here---though to a comparatively lesser degree, since this is, after all, a decidedly anti-Catholic website.
Its not anti-Catholic, it is pro scripture. You choose to see people defending what scripture actually says as attacks against the Catholic church. (There are those that ARE truly anti-Catholic.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cruciform
I see no real evidence on this forum that you don't fit that description yourself.
Then you do not look far enough.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Get over yourselves. Arguing over Piscean Christian theology is useless. We are going into a new aeon and Piscean Christian interpretations, all of them, are wrong as the Gospels turn out to contain a whole hidden code, two actually, one Egyptian and the other astrological, that was deliberately concealed as Piscean minds could not handle the Christ commitment to love of humanity over power. You still see this struggle going on now with lesser minds trying their best to remake Jesus' teaching us to serve humanity into weapons of war against humanity, e.g. the conservative attacks on peace makers and even the symbol of peace, showing plainly conservatives have no use for the Sermon on the Mount.
Read the end of Matthew which tells you how long Piscean Christian theology is good for. And Catholics, stop trying to make over Jesus's teachings about who we should call "father" so that the RCC can continue its swath of destruction of social values wherever the Catholic Church is the main church of the land. Haven't many of you noticed that it is in Catholic Church dominated countries where criminals rule and corruption in government is the norm? It doesn't take an Einstein to figure out the relationship between a corrupt Church and corrupt governments.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 09:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
So you really don't know what argument I might offer.
Sure I do. You've offered it several times before on other threads, after all.
Quote:
So if I disagree with what the church fathers interpretations and pronouncements regarding scripture, am I being illogical or irrational?
Perhaps, but disagreeing with the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church is more central to the issue.
Quote:
What happens when the Catholic church is wrong about something?
If, by "something," you mean formal Christian doctrine, then your question is internally flawed, and simply makes no sense---like asking what happens when Jesus Christ is wrong about something (Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
Quote:
Is it not true that anybody who does not agree with your strict understanding of what the Catholic church is automatically wrong?
It's true that anybody who does not agree with the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Catholic Church is "automatically" wrong, just as one would be if he disagreed with the authoritative teachings of Jesus Christ---since the two are entirely identical (Mt. 16:18; Lk. 10:16; 1 Tim. 3:15; 1 Jn. 4:6).
Quote:
If so, then you have concluded that they are wrong regardless of what they might say.
...just as you have concluded that Catholics are "automatically wrong"---regardless of what they might say---for failing to conform to your preferred interpretations of the Bible.
Quote:
Its not anti-Catholic, it is pro scripture.
"...pro CabinetMember's preferred interpretation of scripture," you mean. Big difference there.
Quote:
You choose to see people defending what scripture actually says as attacks against the Catholic church.
People are defending their opinions about what scripture supposedly says. Big difference there.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
April 2nd, 2012, 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
I found the RCC in scripture:
Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Nah... I think it's clearly a reference to Barney the Purple Dinosaur. Or maybe it's Pauly Shore! No, wait...Rocky Balboa! No, Margaret Thatcher!...
(You get the idea.)
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
April 2nd, 2012, 03:45 PM
The only time I point out that an anti-Catholic's argument is fallacious is when his argument is, in fact, fallacious. (Though I can certainly see why that might appear to you to involve "every" anti-Catholic argument.)
Linear Mode
