Help me to understand this whole "trinity" thing...
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People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
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April 8th, 2012, 02:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
The triune understanding is based on revelation, not raw reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj
There you have it, the trinity is not reasonable, it's based on guesswork...
You lose credibility when you twist someone's words like that...
The Trinity is ARRIVED at by revelation not reason and that revelation is very reasonable.
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II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
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April 8th, 2012, 03:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dudeman-x
The trinity concept has never really made sense to me. So, the father, son, and the holy ghost are all the same thing? If that is the case, then why would God doom us all to sin pretty much right off the bat (original sin), but then go and allow himself to die on the cross so that our sins will be forgiven? Jesus seems like a very different dude than God. And what am I supposed to figure the holy ghost is?
Oh, and, happy easter!
As you have noticed, the trinity makes no sense.
that is because it is completely erroneous and non scriptural.
It is the result of pagans not leaving their triune gods behind when they became Christians.
The true God is not a three in one, but one only
Deuteronomy 6:4
God, in that verse wanted to make sure that the people of Israel were not tricked into pagan worship
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
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April 8th, 2012, 03:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chair
Then explain the reason, and don't resort to revelation.
Ask GOD for the revelation and if He answers you have the reasoning with it.
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
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April 8th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal
Deuteronomy 6:4
God, in that verse wanted to make sure that the people of Israel were not tricked into pagan worship
oatmeal
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
The Septuagint Greek of Deut 6:4 for ONE and the Greek in John 10:30 for ONE is the same word (with a gender change).
ONE is to be read, a UNITY.
And the real reason HE let the mistake arise was so that when HE made the right angle turn in doctrine, only those following HIS Holy Spirit could follow, not the churchy.
You lose credibility when you twist someone's words like that...
The Trinity is ARRIVED at by revelation not reason and that revelation is very reasonable.
Peace, Ted
You lose credibility when you can't even provide a doable explanation to something that is getting pummeled by a doable explanation.
Revelation is reasonable, but you have to twist the concordance of revelation to fit your trinity concept.
I was being nice by calling it guesswork, because my true opinion is that it is simply bogus., a band-aid to patch a mortal wound which is what you all's theology is.
Revelation trumps reason and is apprehended by reason. Just because you don't have illumination and understanding does not mean hundreds of millions of Christians through the centuries don't have it. The trinity is not unreasonable nor contradictory, properly understood. If God reveals Himself as just, we may misunderstand this based on our limited conceptions of human justice. If God is omnipresent, finite creatures might not grasp this, but we still have revelation that shows He is not limited like we are. We can know truth about God even if we do not understand it exhaustively. We have sufficient revelation to know that Arianism, Unitarianism, Modalism, polytheism are not biblical/true.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
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April 8th, 2012, 06:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttruscott
John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."
Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.
The Septuagint Greek of Deut 6:4 for ONE and the Greek in John 10:30 for ONE is the same word (with a gender change).
ONE is to be read, a UNITY.
And the real reason HE let the mistake arise was so that when HE made the right angle turn in doctrine, only those following HIS Holy Spirit could follow, not the churchy.
Peace, Ted
Nice try.
Too bad context means nothing to trins.
You have not included context in John 10:30
As for the rest of your comments, well, I don't want to be harsh. Which would be fitting.
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
Last edited by oatmeal; April 8th, 2012 at 06:54 PM.
Reason: mercy
Revelation trumps reason and is apprehended by reason. Just because you don't have illumination and understanding does not mean hundreds of millions of Christians through the centuries don't have it. The trinity is not unreasonable nor contradictory, properly understood. If God reveals Himself as just, we may misunderstand this based on our limited conceptions of human justice. If God is omnipresent, finite creatures might not grasp this, but we still have revelation that shows He is not limited like we are. We can know truth about God even if we do not understand it exhaustively. We have sufficient revelation to know that Arianism, Unitarianism, Modalism, polytheism are not biblical/true.
This is only your opinion, not biblical. Where do you find that Jesus says "I am God"?
You cannot find any clear description of triune God in the Bible.
We all know that trinitarians are vast majority and one of the major religions. Jesus also says that only a few find narrow gate.
This is only your opinion, not biblical. Where do you find that Jesus says "I am God"?
You cannot find any clear description of triune God in the Bible.
We all know that trinitarians are vast majority and one of the major religions. Jesus also says that only a few find narrow gate.
The narrow gate is Jesus, not the trinity, per se (vs Buddha, Mohammed, etc.).
If I claim to be a man, but never say I am human, does that mean I am not human? The Jewish Pharisees understood Jesus' claims to be equal with the Father and God Himself (hence stone for blasphemy).
When Jesus said "I AM", He claimed Jehovahistic identity. When He said 'Son of God', it was not a created/procreated Son, but equality of position and unity of eternal nature. Verses about YHWH/LORD are applied to Jesus in the NT. To confess Jesus as Lord is to confess Him as Deity. Jesus has the names, titles, authority, seat, works, etc. of Almighty God. He is worshipped, something reserved for Deity alone. The cumulative evidence is that He is God. He is called God without correction by John, Thomas, Paul, etc. Jn. 1:1 alone refutes you unless you are a polytheist with subordinate, finite gods vs one true God.
40 verses support the Deity of Christ and many more the trinity. The 6 Arian proof texts can be answered from a trinitarian point of view (incarnation, etc.).
This book will help you keep out of hell (since you twist the Bible to match your views, look at the biblical evidence with scholarship to show Jesus is God whether He used the phrase 'I AM GOD' or not in English).
and your god does not even exist. Allah is not God, but YHWH is. God is triune, not solitary. The dividing line in all religions is still the Deity of Christ vs generic jesus who does not exist (New Age, JW, Unitarian, Mormon, Muslim, etc.).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
and your god does not even exist. Allah is not God, but YHWH is. God is triune, not solitary. The dividing line in all religions is still the Deity of Christ vs generic jesus who does not exist (New Age, JW, Unitarian, Mormon, Muslim, etc.).
Where does the bible says triune God?
Jesus says He has God, and His God is also His followers' God; the same God as His God.
You continually ignore Jesus' own word.
Jesus never mention anything about triune God, when He talks about His God, His Father.
Jesus says He has God, and His God is also His followers' God; the same God as His God.
You continually ignore Jesus' own word.
Jesus never mention anything about triune God, when He talks about His God, His Father.
Jesus talked about the Father as God, but He also claimed equality with the Father and claimed titles and attributes exclusive to God. The only way to reconcile this is a triune view.
For the last time, the concept of 1000 year millennial reign is in Scripture even if the exact English word is not. Quit using idiotic JW arguments.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
Jesus talked about the Father as God, but He also claimed equality with the Father and claimed titles and attributes exclusive to God. The only way to reconcile this is a triune view.
Where did He say He is equal with God?
Quote:
For the last time, the concept of 1000 year millennial reign is in Scripture even if the exact English word is not. Quit using idiotic JW arguments.
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