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Matthew 17:20 ........... for assuredly, I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you will say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it will move; and nothing will be impossible for you.
How much faith does it take to move a mountain?
The difference between salvation and physical healing is our physical senses. What we see and feel communicates doubt, which is why we have to cling to the promises in the word.
1 Peter 2:24 .......by whose stripes you were healed.
My post about your contradiction has nothing to do with whether or not God heals or how.
I am considering it. For you to claim that someone has unbelief if they are not healed robs them of any assurance that they are saved, since you say it takes the same belief to be saved.
If you want to say it takes the same kind of faith to be healed as it does to be saved, the same scenario results.
Person A states: I believe or have faith in Jesus so as to be saved
I believe or have faith I am healed ( no healing results)
Belief or faith did not get the desired result for healing.
Person A has no assurance that they received the desired result for salvation.
Been there, done that.
There's not one verse telling us that not everyone can be healed, not one. However, the reasons why some people don't receive healing is not straightforward.
Lets look at James 5:14-15
Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord. And the prayer of faith will save the sick, and the Lord will raise him up.
The word says "anyone", and, "the Lord will raise him up".
Lets look at 1Cor 11:30
1 Corinthians 11:30 For this reason many are weak and sick among you, and many sleep.
If sickness comes on people if they eat the bread and drink the cup in an unworthy manner, it must also be true that healing is ours in the new covenant.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
I am considering it. For you to claim that someone has unbelief if they are not healed robs them of any assurance that they are saved, since you say it takes the same belief to be saved.
No one can say whether or not a person is believing. Unbelief is one major reason why people do not receive healing, but its not the only reason.
Quote:
If you want to say it takes the same kind of faith to be healed as it does to be saved, the same scenario results.
People can only be saved if they believe and receive the gospel.
You accept the verses dealing with salvation of the soul, but you reject the verses about physical healing. Its not a problem for you.
Quote:
Person A states: I believe or have faith in Jesus so as to be saved
I believe or have faith I am healed ( no healing results)
Belief or faith did not get the desired result for healing.
Person A has no assurance that they received the desired result for salvation.
1. The assurance of salvation comes from the indwelling Holy Spirit, not mental persuasion.
2. If a person truly believes they are healed, they will receive healing.
Your problem is that you do not understand that faith is in the heart. You only understand the gospel as information that you mentally receive. This is why you are such a confused guy.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
I am considering it. For you to claim that someone has unbelief if they are not healed robs them of any assurance that they are saved, since you say it takes the same belief to be saved.
If you want to say it takes the same kind of faith to be healed as it does to be saved, the same scenario results.
Person A states: I believe or have faith in Jesus so as to be saved
I believe or have faith I am healed ( no healing results)
Belief or faith did not get the desired result for healing.
Person A has no assurance that they received the desired result for salvation.
End of lesson.
This is one reason to not equate healing in the atonement in the exact same way salvation is. Healing has more complexities and factors. He should not make a big doctrine out of proof text in Is. 53 that can show healing/wholeness is more than spiritual, but not guaranteed in this life (physical healing) in all cases in the same way that faith leads to eternal life.
He is wrong, but not as extreme as you make him out to be.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
William let's bring this down to your level of understanding shall we?
I own a book store.
You come in and pay for two commentaries
I tell you that I promise to have the first book in two months
I tell you I promise to have the second book tomorrow
You believe me on both counts.
Tomorrow comes and no book. The next day and so on. You never receive the promise.
What assurance do you have that you will receive the other book?
You either did not believe me enough, or I'm a liar? Which is it?
The problem is not the character and faithfulness of God, lack of faith or sin (simplistic, some vs all cases), but proof texting promises of the Bible out of context (some were specific to individuals, corporate Israel, etc.). WOF proof texts and applies in a way Scripture does not intend (Western mindset to think abundant life is temporal, health, wealth, prosperity).
WOF is one extreme, but your functional atheism is the other extreme. The biblical, balanced view of faith, healing, sovereignty, etc. is not represented perfectly by either of you (that leaves me standing, I guess ).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
godrules says all trin belivers are saints. You should be flattered and should not go against him.
I did NOT say this. There are nominal Protestants and Catholics that intellectually affirm the trinity who are not saved, not regenerate, not in relationship with Christ. There are modalists who are against the trinity who are saved.
What I say is that Arians like you have a false Christ and deny essential, salvific truth (Deity of Christ).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
This is one reason to not equate healing in the atonement in the exact same way salvation is. Healing has more complexities and factors. He should not make a big doctrine out of proof text in Is. 53 that can show healing/wholeness is more than spiritual, but not guaranteed in this life (physical healing) in all cases in the same way that faith leads to eternal life.
He is wrong, but not as extreme as you make him out to be.
William, for once in your life, be honest. I really don't believe you can.
The scenario I just gave you proves that there are only two possible solutions to andy's premise.
Either those who are not healed have no assurance of salvation or God is a liar. Another answer is not possible.
Because of your pride, you hate being wrong, so you chose not to respond honestly to my post. Is having integrity not on your list of obeying the revealed moral law of God?
This is one reason to not equate healing in the atonement in the exact same way salvation is. Healing has more complexities and factors. He should not make a big doctrine out of proof text in Is. 53 that can show healing/wholeness is more than spiritual, but not guaranteed in this life (physical healing) in all cases in the same way that faith leads to eternal life.
He is wrong, but not as extreme as you make him out to be.
Turning people away from Christ is betraying Him.
Mark 14:21
The Son of Man indeed goes just as it is written of Him, but woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had never been born.”
godrules says all trin belivers are saints. You should be flattered and should not go against him.
Enough with the thread derailing, sabotaging, spamming (?) already.
Why don't you make a thread that is for Trinity issues, non-tinitarian's and trinitarian's, with a poll...like...
I'm a non-trinitarian
I do not believe in the trinity
I'm a trinitarian
I do believe there is a trinity
I believe it's nobody's business
OR
...............Undecided
Yes trinity no trinity
.....O LORD my God, in You I put my trust. Psalm 7:1
.....To You, O LORD, I lift up my soul. Psalm 25:1
Too often we underestimate the power of a touch, a smile, a kind word, a listening ear, an honest compliment, or the smallest act of caring, all of which have the potential to turn a life around. ~ Leo Buscaglia
).
no trinity
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