ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
April 29th, 2012, 06:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by keypurr
They do not understand that statement was before God sent Jesus into the world to be the savour.
K,
they also refuse to read, let alone consider all the information God gives regarding saviors.
Gideon was delegated the responsibility to save Israel.
Judges 6:14
"And the LORD looked upon him, and said, Go in this thy might, and thou shalt save Israel from the hand of the Midianites: have not I sent thee?"
How much plainer can it be?
Gideon was given the responsibility to save Israel.
God is the only source of salvation.
God has good management skills, He knows to whom and how to delegate responsibility to others according to their willingness and ability.
And if that wasn't enough, let's look at
Nehemiah 9:27
"Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies."
God gave them saviours.
So I repeat, maybe they will read this time.
God is the only source of salvation.
God has good management skills, He knows to whom and how to delegate responsibility to others according to their willingness and ability.
God gave them saviours.
God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten son.
To do what? Save.
God has sent saviors throughout history.
And continues to send them.
The ultimate savior is, of course, His son Jesus Christ.
Well, when they become humble, then they will learn.
oatmeal
PS. one reason you are here is to save the trinitarians from their false doctrine.
Question is, will they cooperate with that salvation, or fight against it?
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
I John 3:1-2. Prov 14:34 Psalm 133:1
Last edited by oatmeal; April 29th, 2012 at 07:45 AM.
Reason: more
Before Me no God was formed, nor shall there be after Me.
Isa 43:11 I, I am Jehovah; and there is none to save besides Me.
Isa 43:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shown, when there was no strange god among you; therefore you are My witnesses, says Jehovah, that I am God.
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Isa 44:24 So says Jehovah, your Redeemer, and He who formed you from the womb, I am Jehovah who makes all things; who stretches out the heavens alone; who spreads out the earth; who was with Me?
Col 1:16 For all things were created in Him, the things in the heavens, and the things on the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers, all things were created through Him and for Him.
Col 1:17 And He is before all things, and by Him all things consist.
What does that have to do with the saviour that the only God sent to save this world.? John. 3:16
If you read your post do you ask yourself that you may be supporting another god by elevating Jesus to his Father's statis?
Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 01:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
A plan is not God. It isn't even 'with' God. John 1:1
Unless I'm an Arian, I'd never even consider the idea. Even if I were, I know enough not to toss that up there for trinitarians. There is absolutely nadda that we'd even entertain. The idea comes nowhere from the text. Think of something better of give this particular verse up as loss for arian explanation. None of us are buying it.
Yes, a plan is theos, if you understand what theos is. And yes, a plan is pros ton theon, "with God", if you know how Greek prepositions are used. I could explain that, but I really don't think you are here to learn anything so I don't think I'll bother.
G'day mate.
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
just a prophet, I wish people who say that can read the ridiculousness of their own statements, none of the prophets where "just" anything they were people selected by God for specific purposes, if that's a "just" to believers today than they are missing a majority of the theme of the Torah
Absolutely!
They also miss the fact that GOD Himself calls His prophets 'gods' with His qualifying statement through His chosen mouthpieces:
JN 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
JN 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
so those who God gave His Words to speak are prophets/gods!!!
eg
EX 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
DEUT 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
DEUT 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
JN 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
God's mouthpieces are God's authorised agents and speak for God Himself using God's own Words ... they are gods (unto whom the Word of God came!)
Jesus even clarified the theme of Torah ... how to love God and fellow man ... that's lost on many too
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremysdemo
I doubt such people would listen to Jesus even if God gave him the power to heal the sick free the captives, and all authority on earth, etc etc,,,, but wait, He did
Jesus said they wouldn't believe even if one was raised from the dead ... and Jesus did that too
LK 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
LK 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Slogan/motto:
The kingdom is within, and comes without observation.
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 11:10 AM
The virgin birth and that Spiritual conception by God's seed with the seed of the woman shows two elements brought together like no other off spring before or after in that measure, not just an Issac but all the previous types and shadows confined in this one body that represented all the new creation and qaulified as redeemer for all the fruits and grains, beast, fowl, fish, all the pattern found in the old are fulfilled in Him! I WILL is the cry of that same creator that walked with adam in the garden, and that Spiritual rock Israel drank from, and He did it all in and through Christ before the world was and after, and is the same God that walked with men in the flesh also, took on their adamic weakness and limitations to redeem them and the rest of His creation.
He told you it would come without observation or pomp! but you want the firecraker's and feasts to prove who he was!! aint happenin arians this side of the veil, God made weak flesh may seem foolish to you but that just proves your seeing this issue through eyes of flesh and it's cloudy vision and the impossibilities the flesh places on God, Romans 11:33-35 is the proper attitude when it comes to God and mans inability to really understand what He can or can't do.
The virgin birth and that Spiritual conception by God's seed with the seed of the woman shows two elements brought together like no other off spring before or after in that measure, not just an Issac but all the previous types and shadows confined in this one body that represented all the new creation and qaulified as redeemer for all the fruits and grains, beast, fowl, fish, all the pattern found in the old are fulfilled in Him! I WILL is the cry of that same creator that walked with adam in the garden, and that Spiritual rock Israel drank from, and He did it all in and through Christ before the world was and after, and is the same God that walked with men in the flesh also, took on their adamic weakness and limitations to redeem them and the rest of His creation.
He told you it would come without observation or pomp! but you want the firecraker's and feasts to prove who he was!! aint happenin arians this side of the veil, God made weak flesh may seem foolish to you but that just proves your seeing this issue through eyes of flesh and it's cloudy vision and the impossibilities the flesh places on God, Romans 11:33-35 is the proper attitude when it comes to God and mans inability to really understand what He can or can't do.
Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 04:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zeke
The virgin birth and that Spiritual conception by God's seed with the seed of the woman shows two elements brought together like no other off spring before or after in that measure, not just an Issac but all the previous types and shadows confined in this one body that represented all the new creation and qaulified as redeemer for all the fruits and grains, beast, fowl, fish, all the pattern found in the old are fulfilled in Him! I WILL is the cry of that same creator that walked with adam in the garden, and that Spiritual rock Israel drank from, and He did it all in and through Christ before the world was and after, and is the same God that walked with men in the flesh also, took on their adamic weakness and limitations to redeem them and the rest of His creation.
He told you it would come without observation or pomp! but you want the firecraker's and feasts to prove who he was!! aint happenin arians this side of the veil, God made weak flesh may seem foolish to you but that just proves your seeing this issue through eyes of flesh and it's cloudy vision and the impossibilities the flesh places on God, Romans 11:33-35 is the proper attitude when it comes to God and mans inability to really understand what He can or can't do.
Speaking for myself, since I'm not an arian, though I don't think any arians would disagree (if they do they can say so), I don't think it's "foolish" to think that God made himself weak flesh, I just think it's just plain unscriptural. God is immutable. His qualities of being all-powerful, all-knowing, and all present will never change. That's what the bible teaches us. If you have a problem with that then your problem is with God's Word, not us.
"but you want the firecraker's and feasts to prove who he was!!" - What the devil are you talking about here?
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
Speaking for myself, since I'm not an arian, though I don't think any arians would disagree (if they do they can say so), I don't think it's "foolish" to think that God made himself weak flesh, I just think it's just plain unscriptural. God is immutable.
The scripture nowhere says that God is immutable. It says that His counsels are immutable. God said to Moses, "I shall become who I am becoming." That means God can change!
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 05:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenda
Absolutely!
They also miss the fact that GOD Himself calls His prophets 'gods' with His qualifying statement through His chosen mouthpieces:
JN 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
JN 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
so those who God gave His Words to speak are prophets/gods!!!
eg
EX 7:1 And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.
DEUT 18:18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
DEUT 18:19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him.
JN 12:49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
God's mouthpieces are God's authorised agents and speak for God Himself using God's own Words ... they are gods (unto whom the Word of God came!)
Jesus even clarified the theme of Torah ... how to love God and fellow man ... that's lost on many too
Jesus said they wouldn't believe even if one was raised from the dead ... and Jesus did that too
LK 16:30 And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
LK 16:31 And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Good job!
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Yes, a plan is theos, if you understand what theos is. And yes, a plan is pros ton theon, "with God", if you know how Greek prepositions are used. I could explain that, but I really don't think you are here to learn anything so I don't think I'll bother.
G'day mate.
There it is again, the "cop-out-lest-it-be-shown-I'm-language-pathetic" line. Show me.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 10:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
The scripture nowhere says that God is immutable. It says that His counsels are immutable. God said to Moses, "I shall become who I am becoming." That means God can change!
God said, "I shall become...." It is the same verb in the statement , "The rod shall become a serpent," Exodus 7:9
If God is immutable in the way you say then we're all in deep doo doo.
The unfolding revelation of God about himself as reflected in the names he gave of himself were just that, an unfolding REVELATION, not a change in who he was. For example, he didn't become a healer when he revealed himself by a name that translates to God is Healer. He always had been. For you to say God changed his nature when he became something else to His covenant people is no different than the atheists who say our bible reveals at least two different Gods, one in the Old Testament and One in the New Testament, when in reality the testaments don't reveal a changing God but a God who deals differently with mankind at different times, ie, different covenants for different times.
Accepting the idea that God changes his nature would be contrary to Jms. 1:17, among others, and imply the bible has more than one author. You can argue from that standpoint if you like, but I argue from the standpoint that the bible has one author, the Holy Spirit, and therefor consistant.
If God does change, then it would be possible for him to become unloving, unforgiving, non-omniscient, not all powerful, not able to save, etc., and we really would be in deep doo doo.
I'm stickin' with the Rock of Ages, who I can count on to be the same yesterday, today, and forever.
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
April 30th, 2012, 10:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
There it is again, the "cop-out-lest-it-be-shown-I'm-language-pathetic" line. Show me.
Why would I bother after you said, "Unless I'm an Arian, I'd never even consider the idea." You don't have an open mind. Your mind is like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set.
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
Why would I bother after you said, "Unless I'm an Arian, I'd never even consider the idea." You don't have an open mind. Your mind is like concrete, all mixed up and permanently set.
I've never actually seen an arian language scholar. I'd have to see by compulsion at the very idea. Such a heavy duty tool would, I think, prevail upon concrete.
Am I teasing you for blowing hot-air? Yes, sorry, Probably.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Slogan/motto:
Luther only started the Reformation - We must finish it!
Reputation:
May 1st, 2012, 08:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
I've never actually seen an arian language scholar. I'd have to see by compulsion at the very idea. Such a heavy duty tool would, I think, prevail upon concrete.
Am I teasing you for blowing hot-air? Yes, sorry, Probably.
No, you're just baiting me for a debate thinking I care if you think I'm blowing hot air or don't know what I'm talking about.
No skin off my bones.
Atheism is a advertising nightmare as in what you see is what you get and when you die that's it. - DaveDodo007
Totally depraved doctrine.
Uncertain salvation.
Luck of the draw.
Irresistible damnation.
Persecution of the saints.
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