[eameece]

Originally Posted by Damian

"God is love." 1 John 4:8

Whenever we have a "unitive experience," then we are experiencing God. This is not beyond anyone's experience here. Albeit, we can definitely obstruct it. In fact, that's the whole purpose of spiritual practice...to remove the barriers that obstruct love's awareness.

"God indeed can be reached directly, for there is no distance between Him and His Son. His awareness is in everyone's memory, and His Word is written on everyone's heart. Yet this awareness and this memory can arise across the threshold of recognition only where all barriers to truth have been removed." - A Course in Miracles

I agree with you and Dena. I experience "God" every minute of every day. He is the essence of Me, the being of my being. Even so, I have certainly a lot of room to grow in my experience of God, and acting as God.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Throwback

Horrible attempt at a correlation Nick. The GOD concept is one that for most is abstract as it involves GOD being a being that is beyond/outside of space and time that is NOT readily within man's realm of perception.
It can be demonstrated that I, and any other human being has a mind by objective, testable, and verifiable measures. A person could get their head surgically opened revealing the mind. They could get a CT scan as well. A person's feelings can often be identified by the actions of that person. The actions displaying love, anger, sadness, and joy can be observed and confirmed by others.

Consciousness (i.e. subjective awareness) cannot be objectively measured or tested by virtue of the fact this it is subjective, not objective. It can only be inferred. And one thing we can say about God is that God must be conscious in order to qualify as God. So, the analogy is more than apt. We can infer God's existence by objective evidence although we cannot objectively detect God. And, of course, we can infer God's existence based on our own subjective experiences.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by DaveDodo007

I can certainly see the benefits of believing in a 'loving God' as apposed to the usual genocidal maniac Gods people normally believe in but still you have to ask yourself 'is it true.'

Do you believe that beliefs that can ultimately be characterized as optimistic have more pragmatic value over beliefs that can ultimately be characterized as pessimistic? (This is basically what differentiates faith from skepticism when it comes to matters of ultimate concern.)

[Throwback]

Originally Posted by keypurr

If you see the words as they are meant to be seen, then you build your faith on that. Nothing can be proven, but when you feel that you have been given an understanding your faith grows a hundred fold. If what you see in the words is reasonable, you accept it. I have faith that my God has given me an understanding of who he is and what he expects from me.

First of all, thanks for the reply. Secondly, I must ask; How can one be certain that they see the words as they are meant to be seen?
In a nutshell, your statement tells readers that faith in one's understanding of and feelings about that understanding of ancient writings is the foundation everything else is built on. Your response comes across as honest, yet the approach you endorse has some real problems. Can you see how problematic an approach built on feelings, individual understanding, and faith in that understanding, which I must point out is far different from faith in a god, is problematic?

Originally Posted by keypurr

For me, the prophecies on Daniel and Revelation passed my line of reason. What I saw was the timing of the Lord coming into this world exactly as Daniel said 490 before he came. Can I prove it? To a reasonable person I think I could. But it does take some measure of faith when prophecy is the topic.
However I ended up with a very comfortable relationship with my God.

I get why you feel this way. I once did myself. The problem I ran into with Daniel's Messianic prophecies is that they were never fully fulfilled and they allowed for the possibility of self-fulfillment. Anyone (man) with knowledge of the 70 weeks prophesy living at the onset of the 1st century could stake a claim at being the Anointed One mentioned by the prophet and come on the scene preaching the nearness of the prophesied kingdom much like Jesus is said to have done.

[Throwback]

Originally Posted by Damian

Consciousness (i.e. subjective awareness) cannot be objectively measured or tested by virtue of the fact this it is subjective, not objective. It can only be inferred. And one thing we can say about God is that God must be conscious in order to qualify as God. So, the analogy is more than apt. We can infer God's existence by objective evidence although we cannot objectively detect God. And, of course, we can infer God's existence based on our own subjective experiences.

I never said consciousness could be measured. I said it can be objectively verified. There is a huge difference. The same cannot be said for any god. My consciousness as well as the consciousness of all posters on this forum are verifiable things as each of us makes conscious decisions and acts based on many of those decisions, decisions who's reprocussions have real world effects that are observable.

[Town Heretic]

Originally Posted by Throwback

I never said consciousness could be measured. I said it can be objectively verified. There is a huge difference. The same cannot be said for any god. My consciousness as well as the consciousness of all posters on this forum are verifiable thinks as each of us makes conscious decisions and acts based on many of those decisions, decisions who's reprocussions have real world effects that are observable.

Only within their own, accepted contexts. You can't actually verify much beyond your own existence and even that is suspect. No matter how much you might want to reduce the world to faith vs fact, they aren't opponents and the latter requires the foundation of the former.

The battle between the theist and atheist is over the kind and quality of faith.

[Throwback]

Anyone remember 'Pat' from SNL back in the 90's? Well, the lady that played her, Julia Sweeney put together a pretty remarkable monologue detail her journey from god belief entitled: "Letting Go of God"
Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri3-D...layer_embedded

[Town Heretic]

And you might also find this interesting:

How I found God and peace with my atheist brother: PETER HITCHENS traces his journey back to Christianity. And yes, he's the brother of Christopher Hitchens.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz1rrFXLtOG

[punkforchrist]

Hi Throwback,

I believe in the Christian God because of a combination of things. One might say I believe in Christianity simply because I was brought up to believe, but that objection, if the implication is that my belief is therefore unjustified, commits a genetic fallacy. I also believe because of the arguments of natural theology and because I find the historicity of Jesus' resurrection to have compelling evidence.

[Damian]

Originally Posted by Throwback

I never said consciousness could be measured. I said it can be objectively verified. There is a huge difference.

Actually you did...

Originally Posted by Throwback

It can be demonstrated that I, and any other human being has a mind by objective, testable, and verifiable measures.

Originally Posted by Throwback

The same cannot be said for any god. My consciousness as well as the consciousness of all posters on this forum are verifiable things as each of us makes conscious decisions and acts based on many of those decisions, decisions who's reprocussions have real world effects that are observable.

To reiterate: "Consciousness (i.e. subjective awareness) cannot be objectively measured or tested (or verified) by virtue of the fact this it is subjective, not objective. It can only be inferred. And one thing we can say about God is that God must be conscious in order to qualify as God. So, the analogy is more than apt. We can infer God's existence by objective evidence although we cannot objectively detect God. And, of course, we can infer God's existence based on our own subjective experiences."

[Angel4Truth]

Originally Posted by Throwback

How is it that you know that you know GOD? Is there a way to objectively demonstrate that your claim of a relationship with God anymore real than a grop of people who claim to have a relationship with an imaginary friend? Is it not likely that you merely BELIEVE that you know GOD in much the same manner that a Muslem BELIEVES he knows Allah?

I know God because I have a relationship with Him. I can no more objectively demonstrate that to you than i could make you part of my relationship with my earthly Father.

I can tell you about both, but i can no more objectively share my personal relationships with you than you can yours with me.

Second, no muslim believes he knows Allah, the Koran teaches that Allah saves who he wills only, and that no one knows who that will be

Answer about knowing allah: The Most Sacred Essence of Allah cannot be known and thinking about it is forbidden.

Have you considered the possibility that the god you "know" is in fact your personal projection of what you THINK god is or should be that is biased by your upbringing, conditioning, life experiences, and inner desire?

No. Explain how madeline ohares son became a christian please if that were the case.

[freelight]

Originally Posted by Throwback

Specifically, I ask this question in all sincerity hoping to get answers as it pertains to why people believe in the GOD they believe in as opposed to other GODS.

A matter of 'choice'.

Is your god belief based on something beyond feelings, upbring, wishful thinking,...

It could include the above yet also more.

or do you have some solid evidence that your G-O-D is the genuine article?

It would be a matter of agreeing on what 'evidence' is necessary to qualify something as being 'real' beyond merely 'point of view'.

Beyond an intellectual concept or even existential assumption, the classic definition of 'God' is an originating incorporeal invisible Spiritual Reality at the heart of all existence, which originates all, pervades all and still transcends all as Infinite. This God-Presence is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, the fundamental reality. 'THE God', is 'this' permeation of existence and consciousness. This is it! All That Is.

This pure being and awareness is absolute; include a god-concept if you like, or call this reality 'God' (Brahman). This reality is clear, as itself, and unto itself. All else merely arises in 'this' ocean of consciousness. This is the perspective of Non-Duality (which may include God/Goddess, or many gods/goddesses...since these concepts/personalities arise with-in the play of creation).

~*~*~

Finally we touch on the thread-question again, and see factors of 'choice', 'point of view' and situational-influence or culturing affecting some religious affiliations or tendencies, but a soul can always act in some dimension of liberty free of these, and extend beyond environmental conditionings. Its perhaps a mix of circumstance, providence and freedom of choice at any given moment as far as where you are at in life's journey.





pj

[Throwback]

Originally Posted by punkforchrist

Hi Throwback,

I believe in the Christian God because of a combination of things. One might say I believe in Christianity simply because I was brought up to believe, but that objection, if the implication is that my belief is therefore unjustified, commits a genetic fallacy. I also believe because of the arguments of natural theology and because I find the historicity of Jesus' resurrection to have compelling evidence.

Thanks P.
For me, Christianity's biggest flaw aside from the churches is the Bible upon which its sects are loosely based. This flawed base makes it the perverbial house built on sand.

You find the historicity Jesus' resurrection to be compelling? Frankly, I would too if there was ANY historicity to it. The only definitive historicity we have about Jesus is the fact that a 1st century movement of Christians arose that painted Jesus as God's promised Jewish Messiah. There is no evidence for his miracles, his resurrection, or his return in glory and judgment upon that generation.
What is natural theology? And what real world meaning that is non subjective can be drawn from it?

[Throwback]

Originally Posted by Damian

Actually you did...

Not quite. Let's bring our reading comprehension skills to the table for a minute here. I said:

It can be demonstrated that I, and any other human being has a mind by objective, testable, and verifiable measures.

Nowhere does that statement say that consciousness can be measured. It instead says that the fact that what we know as consciousness exists and its EXISTANCE can be verified.

[chrysostom]

Why Do You Believe YOUR God is THE God?

you are either naive or ignorant to be asking such a question
but
you may be just trying to cause trouble

there can only be one God
and
you could ask if we believe our version of God is the true one
and
our answer can only have a degree of certainty

how we define our God is not as important as believing that He exists
and
that He expects something from us

this is a good place to start