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'Salvation' an unpleasant doctrine -
April 11th, 2012, 09:44 AM
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
It appears you think going to hell is more "unpleasant".
It also appears that you think you're good enough not to.
Saying "well I don't think God would..." will not get you anywhere.
Trying to put your worth on a human scale, when talking in relation to how God sees us is a grave mistake. We are all infinitely guilty, and worthy of Hell... The fact that you think thats not fair, puts you at a roadblock.
Slogan/motto:
Luke 9:23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me."
Reputation:
April 11th, 2012, 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowjoy
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
Yet the Pelagian element haunts me. And it is sometimes the case, not always but sometimes, that a “decision for Christ,” accompanied by a powerful renewal experience, seems to bury the individual deep in self-righteousness. The born-again Christian cannot see it, of course, but his family and friends certainly do. The born-againer is certain of his salvation. Everyone else is certain they never wish to be born again. I suspect that for about a year after my “baptism in the Holy Spirit,” I was absolutely unbearable. I so desperately wanted everyone to experience what I had experienced. It’s probably a good practical rule that anyone who is privileged with a powerful experience of the Spirit should not be allowed to speak to anyone for about a year. The silence would be a mercy to all.
Eventually there comes that moment when one no longer feels born-again. Where did the Spirit go? Was the whole experience something I conjured up for myself? Why can’t I get it back?
"If a sheerly linguistic version of the gospel could be concocted, it would merely so be no longer the gospel. In the Lutheran Reformation’s understanding, which we believe in this matter to be correct, the sacraments make the inalienable externality of the gospel message and therefore are necessary to the authenticity of that message." (Christian Dogmatics [1984], II:302-303 as cited in Pontifications)
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
Reputation:
April 11th, 2012, 09:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowjoy
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
I certainly dislike the very nasty depiction of the deity in the Bible the thing is pure evil! However I think it is entirely a human construct and even if a deity exists somewhere it certainly isn't the Biblical god.
A Joke
St Peter was showing a bunch of new recruits the delights of heaven. There were things to suit all tastes, even a gay bar. Most popular were the wine tasting sessions, which Jesus had set up, he was particularly proud of his Chateau Heaven vintage, being of course an expert in viticulture.
A carriage, pulled by eight white horses, stopped beside the group, and out got the most beautiful woman they had ever seen. St Peter bowed low and introduced her, "This is God"! The recruits gasped, "Don't worry, you will soon get used to the idea", she grinned!
At the end of the tour the recruits were shown a tin shack from which emanated the sound of hoarse discordant singing. St Peter explained, " That is reserved for 'born again' Christians who think they are the only inhabitants of heaven, we don't like to disappoint them so they can sing God's praises for all eternity. One puzzled new arrival queried how they reacted to God being a woman. "Ah" said St Peter, "Now that is our very cunning plan. Not everyone can enter into the delights of heaven immediately if they have been very bad whilst on earth. They must serve a term playing God for the 'born agains’, the length of which depends on the wickedness of their crimes. As the actor is always hidden in a blaze of light, they are none the wiser when a changeover takes place. However heinous the crime, the perpetrator is deemed to have served their sentence after a few Millennia of listening to that lot 'singing God's praises!"
Slogan/motto:
Hands that help are holier than lips that pray.
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April 11th, 2012, 10:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inzl Kett
Here we go again, another God hater who wants to justify their hatred for God.
Why does the lack of belief in hell make her a god hater? I do not believe in hell. I do not believe in a conscious afterlife at all. I have no idea how that would qualify me as a god hater?
I believe that the Universe is one being, all its parts are different expressions of the same energy,
and they are all in communication with each other, therefore parts of one organic whole.
This whole is in all its parts so beautiful, and is felt by me to be so intensely in earnest, that I am compelled to love it and to think of it as divine
- Robinson Jeffers
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
Friend,
This is what Jesus says:
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
He did not say you go to hell. You will perish if you dont trust Him.
Jesus wants us to live holy, godly, and righteous. This world is cruel and wicked because Satan is in charge of it. If you are interested in peaceful and loving world, Jesus is it. We will have completely loving world without any wicked things if we follow Jesus' ways, after we die and have second life.
Why dont you give Jesus a chance to explain what He has to say by reading His Gospel, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. His teachings are very simple and He explains it clearly.
Dont just take churchgoers' word because most of us are twisting around what Jesus says to propagate their own denominations and doctrines.
You see, you already got influenced by churchgoers' doctrines.
Read the Gospels get first hand knowledge from Jesus instead of second hand ones from church goers.
May God bless you so you will open up for Jesus' word.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."
He did not say you go to hell. You will perish if you dont trust Him.
Jesus wants us to live holy, godly, and righteous. This world is cruel and wicked because Satan is in charge of it. If you are interested in peaceful and loving world, Jesus is it. We will have completely loving world without any wicked things if we follow Jesus' ways, after we die and have second life.
Why dont you give Jesus a chance to explain what He has to say by reading His Gospel, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. His teachings are very simple and He explains it clearly.
Dont just take churchgoers' word because most of us are twisting around what Jesus says to propagate their own denominations and doctrines.
You see, you already got influenced by churchgoers' doctrines.
Read the Gospels get first hand knowledge from Jesus instead of second hand ones from church goers.
May God bless you so you will open up for Jesus' word.
thank you.
I have read the Bible, including the gospel stories, many times. I don't believe Jesus was anymore than human and flawed like the rest of us.
If you are enjoying this wicked world, I dont think you are interested in what Jesus has to say because Jesus' standards are noble and tells us to live holy and righteously.
You see, most of us are not interested in living godly ways because we have to give up our worldly mentality and selfish way of living. Most Christians are not interested in following Jesus' faithfully, thats why they dont look godly and holy in their action. So we are actually lying to God and Jesus in reality even though we are claiming to be Christians.
There is a lot of good in this world as well as bad. I think one should enjoy life whilst one has it and try to do some good too. I think it sad that some continually wish for some afterlife which may well not exist.
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
Reputation:
April 11th, 2012, 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by willowjoy
Some of the most unpleasant people I have met in reality as well as on forums, believe they have a one way ticket to heaven, and consign others to hell even if they are good, decent people. If that is really the case, I contend that the concept of salvation is nasty. However it is wrapped up, the idea if you don't accept Jesus you will go to hell when you die is horrible, especially if you are not a bad person. Surely an omnipotent deity could come up with a more acceptable scenario if humans actually need saving, which is doubtful.
HIS scenario is perfect, accounting for their free will self destruction from their deepest desires to live in a universe where they are equal to GOD,
the election of those who chose to live in Jehovah's universe the way HE layed it out for us and
the gospel promise of salvation if any of HIS elect should fall into sin, which we know we did,
over the issue of HIS righteous damnation of HIS eternal enemies, (ie your issue). Due to this rebellion, judgment had to be postponed until all HIS elect were holy (you included?) and so free from the danger of the judgment as HE promised in election.
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