"WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling" - Oh uh - 4 letter word!!
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
"WORK out your salvation with fear and trembling" - Oh uh - 4 letter word!! -
April 13th, 2012, 10:38 AM
yes, work is a 4 letter word
some think they can get to Heaven by sitting on their hands...
of course no one sits on his hands all the time... but some think they should use their hands to work at making $$... not working out something like salvation, which they seem to think should be totally FREE
True, GRACE is a gift...
but it is given to those who WANT it...
Grace disappears when one sins... esp mortal sin...
so we have to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" as Phil 2:12 (St Paul) tells us
there is no eternal security
sin destroys and we have to WORK against it... through prayer, acts of charity, etc...
Slogan/motto:
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Ro 3:26
Reputation:
April 13th, 2012, 11:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
yes, work is a 4 letter word
some think they can get to Heaven by sitting on their hands...
of course no one sits on his hands all the time... but some think they should use their hands to work at making $$... not working out something like salvation, which they seem to think should be totally FREE
True, GRACE is a gift...
here comes a but....
Quote:
but it is given to those who WANT it...
yes, the law leads us to want Christ when we realize we cannot save ourselves...
Quote:
Grace disappears when one sins... esp mortal sin...
says the rcc, not the bible
Quote:
so we have to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" as Phil 2:12 (St Paul) tells us
you are told to work out your salvation, not work for it.
If I said, go work out your muscles, you would not be doing anything to earn your muscles. Basic english.
Quote:
there is no eternal security
says the rcc, not the bible. (john 10:29; John 5:24; 1John 3:14; 1 john 5:13)
Quote:
sin destroys and we have to WORK against it... through prayer, acts of charity, etc...
completely made up...
You cannot save yourself by any of your own works, not even good works:
Tit_3:5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. If you deny that basic truth, you cannot be saved. God came to save you, you cannot be saved if you do not believe in Him as He is.
[="http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231383&postcount=1"]Satan, Inc. (TOL's heretic's list)[/url]
What is trash is the conclusion that justice is gauged by mere claim rather then by fruit. In that way, a Christian who doubles as an insufferable bigot will be absolved and righteous men who are indifferent about God will be purged.
That is the contradiction of the 'faith without works' claim. With critical thought, it renders God petty. It is also an inherently flawed logic at that- if a person has faith, they will have works. 'Faith without works' is an oxymoron.
*And it's not as if the Bible doesn't tell you to your face that faith without works is dead*. That's the irony with some overexposed Protestants.
some think they can get to Heaven by sitting on their hands...
of course no one sits on his hands all the time... but some think they should use their hands to work at making $$... not working out something like salvation, which they seem to think should be totally FREE
True, GRACE is a gift...
but it is given to those who WANT it...
Grace disappears when one sins... esp mortal sin...
so we have to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" as Phil 2:12 (St Paul) tells us
there is no eternal security
sin destroys and we have to WORK against it... through prayer, acts of charity, etc...
This statement spits on the DBR of Christ. You should be ashamed.
What is trash is the conclusion that justice is gauged by mere claim rather then by fruit. In that way, a Christian who doubles as an insufferable bigot will be absolved and righteous men who are indifferent about God will be purged.
That is the contradiction of the 'faith without works' claim. With critical thought, it renders God petty. It is also an inherently flawed logic at that- if a person has faith, they will have works. 'Faith without works' is an oxymoron.
*And it's not as if the Bible doesn't tell you to your face that faith without works is dead*. Irony.
Faith without fruit that shows is not even faith at all... I will agree, but the RCC puts emphasis on self righteousness.
To say that if you sin, grace will be taken away from you, is totally false... What is salvation if God is only going to take it away if you don't behave right.
Slogan/motto:
Most Christians worship the false god of Public Acceptance.
Reputation:
April 13th, 2012, 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
we have to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" as Phil 2:12 (St Paul) tells us
there is no eternal security
The verse doesn't say we are to work FOR our salvation with fear and trembling but rather we are to work OUT our salvation (that we already have) with fear and trembling.
The verse doesn't say we are to work FOR our salvation with fear and trembling but rather we are to work OUT our salvation (that we already have) with fear and trembling.
Just because one receives baptism or is 'born again' does not guarantee salvation.
In the same way, if one declares having faith but has nothing to show that they have any, their faith is dead and does not guarantee salvation.
I have read deep theological interpretations of 'faith without works', and honestly, it seems like the title is what causes confusion and not the theology itself.
The ironic thing about it is that it basically represents 'faith with works', it's conclusion is just to relay the fact that one won't be faulted on not being a paragon of integrity so long as they try.
The Gospel of Jesus Christ proves this statement wrong. Learn the Gospel and get saved.
Once one is Born again (crucified with Christ, and risen again with him), sealed by the spirit into the body of Christ, you are saved.
Get un-crucified. Get un-sealed. Show me how.
Hitler was baptized. Is he saved?
If he is not, then you contradict yourself. A person can lose salvation.
And if he is, then there would be no point in telling anyone they need to 'get saved'. Jesus' teachings were just vain by your interpretation, and justice doesn't really exist.
How about you go get saved? It seems that is a favorite punchline for a lot of the depraved, insufferable 'Christians' up and around.
A lot of irony. Used that word a few times on this thread.
If he is not, then you contradict yourself. A person can lose salvation.
And if he is, then there would be no point in telling anyone they need to 'get saved'. Jesus' teachings were just vain by your interpretation, and justice doesn't really exist.
How about you go get saved? It seems that is a favorite punchline for a lot of the depraved, insufferable 'Christians' up and around.
A lot of irony. Used that word a few times on this thread.
You need to be baptized to be saved? Thats a new rule im not aware of... And how do I know if he's saved or not... If he heard the gospel and believed that Christ died for him and he proclaimed Jesus as Lord, then yes.
Even if he committed mass genocide after... He's still saved.
Its not really salvation if you can just lose it...
Slogan/motto:
"To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus." Ro 3:26
Reputation:
April 13th, 2012, 07:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sum1sGruj
Hitler was baptized. Is he saved?
hitler was never saved. Water doesn't save people and going through the act of water baptism proves nothing and is not a substitute for faith.
Quote:
If he is not, then you contradict yourself. A person can lose salvation
.
SO Jesus was lying when he said those that believe have passed from death to life? Was He lying when he said noone can pluck us out of the fathers hand? Was John misinformed when he wrote so we may "know" we have eternal life?
Jesus Christ is God in the flesh. If you deny that basic truth, you cannot be saved. God came to save you, you cannot be saved if you do not believe in Him as He is.
[="http://www.theologyonline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3231383&postcount=1"]Satan, Inc. (TOL's heretic's list)[/url]
some think they can get to Heaven by sitting on their hands...
of course no one sits on his hands all the time... but some think they should use their hands to work at making $$... not working out something like salvation, which they seem to think should be totally FREE
True, GRACE is a gift...
but it is given to those who WANT it...
Grace disappears when one sins... esp mortal sin...
so we have to "work out our own salvation with fear and trembling" as Phil 2:12 (St Paul) tells us
there is no eternal security
sin destroys and we have to WORK against it... through prayer, acts of charity, etc...
You misunderstand the verse due to translation and word meanings changing over time -
The words for fear and trembling there in greek should read more like awe/respect and soberness and responsibility.
What the verse is saying is this = Paul is telling them in his letter that in his absence to conduct themselves with the utmost respect for God in a sober minded responsible manner.
You can get this in the english rendering as well by simply cross referencing that verse with 2 Corinthians 7:15 where the same phrase is used about Timothy
KJV says this : And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.
In other words, awed and reverenced his authority, and were obedient in a responsible manner, because he surely isnt telling them to be afraid of Timothy.
The same greek words are used in both verses.
Do you think Paul is telling them to be afraid of Timothy there?
fear
[feer] Show IPA
noun
1.
a distressing emotion aroused by impending danger, evil, pain, etc., whether the threat is real or imagined; the feeling or condition of being afraid. Synonyms: foreboding, apprehension, consternation, dismay, dread, terror, fright, panic, horror, trepidation, qualm. Antonyms: courage, security, calm, intrepidity.
2.
a specific instance of or propensity for such a feeling: an abnormal fear of heights. Synonyms: phobia, aversion; bęte noire, bogy, bogey, bugbear. Antonyms: liking, fondness, penchant, predilection.
3.
concern or anxiety; solicitude: a fear for someone's safety. 4.
reverential awe, especially toward God: the fear of God. Synonyms: awe, respect, reverence, veneration.
5.
something that causes feelings of dread or apprehension; something a person is afraid of: Cancer is a common fear.
The meaning of the word translated as fear in english has the #4 meaning above, it simply means reverence, awe, respect.
Linear Mode
