Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Knight denies Enyart says what you guys are saying, so perhaps you can clear it up for him. I am sure it is a statement consistent with his beliefs that I have objected to before.
You are not paying attention to this conversation. And because of that you are unnecessarily confused. It frustrates me a bit that I have to explain this to you.
The original assertion was... does Bob Enyart teach that God doesn't know the FUTURE because he chooses not to.
The answer to that is NO, Bob does NOT teach that. The future does not exist therefore there is nothing for God to "look away" from.
You have morphed that assertion into a different topic which is.... does Bob Enyart teach that God can "look away" in the PRESENT. The answer to that is YES. Of course God can "look away" if He so chooses.
God isn't forced to watch every frame of every porn movie every produced the basements of dirty Hollywood apartments.
You are not paying attention to this conversation. And because of that you are unnecessarily confused. It frustrates me a bit that I have to explain this to you.
The original assertion was... does Bob Enyart teach that God doesn't know the FUTURE because he chooses not to.
The answer to that is NO, Bob does NOT teach that. The future does not exist therefore there is nothing for God to "look away" from.
You have morphed that assertion into a different topic which is.... does Bob Enyart teach that God can "look away" in the PRESENT. The answer to that is YES. Of course God can "look away" if He so chooses.
God isn't forced to watch every frame of every porn movie every produced the basements of dirty Hollywood apartments.
Then I am not misunderstanding. Claiming ignorance of the present is a denial of omniscience, even by Open Theism standards. One reason to assert this is that we think God could not handle being aware of these things. Like it or not, God sees and knows every evil thing and is thus able to judge every detail. If he was ignorant of these offensive details, there would be no accountability. He does not have to dwell on these things, etc., but that does not mean He is literally not aware of everything knowable (do you really want to say that men and devils know things God does not?).
We do not know the mind and experience of God, so it is speculative at best.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
So, you don't care how the author used the word as long as you can find a meaning that fits your theology. Since most of us do the same,
Yup, I don't care how Hippocrates used the term. And nope, I don't try and fit things to my theology as it is the majority view, it was there long before I ever came around.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
Sozo you are sooo rude to Nang and you are trying to bat her around..
But look at your words:
However, could you answer these questions please:
1)Did The Christ enter into human time with His advent?
2) Was His work "inside time" on the cross?
3) Did the work go forward and backward?
3)How could it do that if God is inside time?
rainee
Is God outside of reality, or is He within the realm of beings that are real?
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
He does not care to understand God, only to pervert his gospel by saying people can sin their way out of salvation. That can't happen if we (believers) are predetermined to be holy and blameless.
Yup, he's an idiot.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainee
Sozo you are sooo rude to Nang and you are trying to bat her around..
How are these words, of his, you quoted rude?
Quote:
However, could you answer these questions please:
1)Did The Christ enter into human time with His advent?
2) Was His work "inside time" on the cross?
3) Did the work go forward and backward?
3)How could it do that if God is inside time?
I'd like to answer them:
No. He was already in time.
Yes.
No.
Now a moot question.
Quote:
Originally Posted by godrulz
Then I am not misunderstanding. Claiming ignorance of the present is a denial of omniscience, even by Open Theism standards. One reason to assert this is that we think God could not handle being aware of these things. Like it or not, God sees and knows every evil thing and is thus able to judge every detail. If he was ignorant of these offensive details, there would be no accountability. He does not have to dwell on these things, etc., but that does not mean He is literally not aware of everything knowable (do you really want to say that men and devils know things God does not?).
We do not know the mind and experience of God, so it is speculative at best.
We have the mind of Christ, but the finite cannot exhaustively understand all of God's experiences, etc. We can know truth as revealed by God. The exact nature of all of His vast thoughts/thinking is beyond us (see Job; Romans 11).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
We have the mind of Christ, but the finite cannot exhaustively understand all of God's experiences, etc. We can know truth as revealed by God. The exact nature of all of His vast thoughts/thinking is beyond us (see Job; Romans 11).
So why are you trying to argue that He doesn't look away if you're admitting that you don't actually know?
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 49391
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
April 17th, 2012, 05:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
Yup, I don't care how Hippocrates used the term. And nope, I don't try and fit things to my theology as it is the majority view, it was there long before I ever came around.
Actually, you don't care how Luke used the term, but everyone knows that the majority view is the one to follow (Matthew 7:13).
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
And that being the case why are you so dogmatic that Enyart is wrong about it?
I am also pretty certain that if Bob were asked directly he would tell you himself that his opinion on this is somewhat speculative. Some of these things, while fun to think through and discuss, are not worth holding you breath and turning purple over.
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
So why are you trying to argue that He doesn't look away if you're admitting that you don't actually know?
He cannot literally become aware of a past or present reality without ceasing to be omniscient. There are figures of speech and rhetorical questions, etc. in the Bible when language accommodates for our understanding. Open Theists take us much at face value as possible, but we also recognize anthropomorphisms, etc. Know one knows the exact workings of God, but we do know from Scripture that He is not ignorant of knowable things. The TOL version of Open Theism is not academic (and I still do not believe Enyart has not leaned this way like some of you, so I don't know why Knight is denying it).
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
I am also pretty certain that if Bob were asked directly he would tell you himself that his opinion on this is somewhat speculative. Some of these things, while fun to think through and discuss, are not worth holding you breath and turning purple over.
Technically true, but Open Theism is misunderstood and misrepresented bad enough. If we want credibility in academic and church circles to promote a powerful view, we do not want to shoot ourself in the foot or make indefensible statements that are not hard to refute if we are to retain any credibility with our detractors. Open Theism does not compromise omniscience, properly understood, despite what the strident Calvinists say. I would suggest that most Open Theists would disagree with the caveat promoted around here.
Know God and make Him known! (YWAM)
They said: "Where is the God of Elijah?"
I say: "Where are the Elijahs of God?" (Ravenhill "Why Revival Tarries")
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Linear Mode
