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TH and all,
This below shows how Grace looks at The Lord.
I personally do not know the heart of humans like God does so I do not
judge on positions like this below. If you do you may be better than I am at discernment. However, I am a Trin - but not because I was taught to be - but because it is the very best at capturing in human minds a spiritual truth that is a mystery, mho.
If Christ is not God then your sins are not forgiven. Only God may do that. Christ's enemies understood that. His people must. Mark 2:5-7; Luke 5:21
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
April 17th, 2012, 12:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rainee
TH and all,
This below shows how Grace looks at The Lord.
I personally do not know the heart of humans like God does so I do not
judge on positions like this below. If you do you may be better than I am at discernment. However, I am a Trin - but not because I was taught to be - but because it is the very best at capturing in human minds a spiritual truth that is a mystery, mho.
Hi rainee,
The above denial of three Persons in one God (Trinity) is the heresy called Sabellianism ("Modalism").
Nang
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
Nang I love you
Really I do, I bet you kinda know it.
BUT I have to draw very fine line between someone not recognizing WHO Jesus is and those who just want to try to reinvent the wheel because they think Trinity is not a Bible word. Because it is not.
If they know who Jesus is then they can come around to the Trinity concept -- and by the way, my Sister, many believers just crumble when they try to explain the trinity - it makes them crazy and unhappy and works best for them if they do not look too close.
I trust the Trinity concept because it is probably a gift from God when it comes to protecting and acknowledging and holding the place for all the many works God is doing as Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I love it.
But some want to try to work out all those verses on their own - so for now they say they are not trins, imo. I can let them do that without saying off with your head or off to hell you go..
hug
This is absolutely right.
There will always be errors that are relatively harmless and based on simple misunderstandings. There's a difference between error and heresy. Error comes from ignorance, whereas with heresy there is a sinister motive at the heart of it.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
WE are talking about women.
Grace is a woman, Tot is a woman, Bybee is, Nang is, I am.
Not one of these people have the kill urge, ok?
If you are a woman perhaps you think you can reason with these guys. Perhaps you think you can win them over, make them feel guilty, or help them see the light?
I believe Grace like several females here is a spiritual tomboy - she likes to fight with the boys.
But I believe you either have the power to whack them on the head or they are going to whack you on the head if you fight them.
Or you agree with them.
Now I'm not talking about the women who suck up so nicely. I personally am very jealous of the women who fit so nicely and seem to wish to be in the armpit of a guy.I think they are safe as long as they stay put.
But if you are not coyly sucking up and trying to kiss their duodenum - then you have to be aware not even guys find it easy to fight with guys. Fighting girls is easier, and after a bit we will try to make up or reason with our enemies..
But guys are dangerous and guys like guys better than they like argumentative females anyway, yeah?
Ok then, I feel for Grace. She was mistreated - really she was.
Now Tot,
forgive me but you are young to me - that means whatever faith you have and you do have it, beloved - but it is still the faith of a young woman. And I have already been there and done that.
As far as Grace's doctrine goes - well I don't know it.
But if somebody explained it to me it better not sound like the person who objected to it was splitting hairs.
Nobody has perfect doctrine. Nobody.
But if anybody did - it wouldn't be because they sat on their haunches thinking they were ok with where they were at. So as long as I grow better and not worse I am hopeful and I hold most others with a grain of mercy if any sometime sound like believers with bad theology.
So Tot please do not be mad at Grace anymore. YOU are the youngest one, I think? If Grace knew who the Lord Jesus is then we have to be careful in dealing with the servant of Another. mho,
Totton (Susanne) was once the biggest opposer here of hyper dispensationism, and the madists really set on her big time. And like g&p she was very gracious how she dealt with them all. I remember one of the MADists here called her a tart, and they ruthlessly mocked her hoping and waiting for her to respond in such a way that would lead to her banning. Even I waited for her to implode as she was being bombarded with insults. And yet she was just a fairly new born babe in Christ at something like 19 years of age.
Here's a taste of the of the former tots in action
Totton (Susanne) was once the biggest opposer here of hyper dispensationism, and the madists really set on her big time. And like g&p she was very gracious how she dealt with them all.
GP had the appearance of gracious, but it was always wrapped around condescension and dismissal if you actually engaged.
I don't believe I've had a great deal of conversation with Totton. She seems to have understood that about GP though. Odd that you didn't.
GP had the appearance of gracious, but it was always wrapped around condescension and dismissal if you actually engaged.
She was at times a little bit, but she accepted all of her opponents as brothers and sisters in Christ, while they were all damning her to hell.
Quote:
I don't believe I've had a great deal of conversation with Totton. She seems to have understood that about GP though. Odd that you didn't.
I agreed with the vast majority of what she said, except for times when I think she couldn't quite express accurately things she understood with her heart.
She was pretty much against me at first but I gave it time to see where she was. At times she said things that I knew were coming out of her by divine inspiration, and very often this is when she was struggling to express things accurately. I could tell that God was showing her things, but what she was saying was mocked and ridiculed.
Its probable that God was speaking to her, for her alone. And she was determined to make others understand it. However, it doesn't work this way. You can't force revelation on people.
There have been times when I have written posts here and I have been worshipping in tongues, and praising God as he opened up truths to me personally, but those truths were for me, and it would have come across as nothing to others.
This is how I discerned the spirit of g&p, and I know that God will use her mightily. And I also discern the same passion in Totton.
Delight yourself in the LORD, And He shall give you the desires of your heart. . Psalms 37:4
Nang I love you
If they know who Jesus is then they can come around to the Trinity concept -- and by the way, my Sister, many believers just crumble when they try to explain the trinity - it makes them crazy and unhappy and works best for them if they do not look too close.
hug
G&P was simply unable to enter into complicated discussions. She was often confused and self-contradictory because she could not get a firm grip on issues of any complexity. She often lost arguments because people took advantage of her limited debating abilities. And I am fairly sure that this left her very frustrated. However, none of that makes her a bad person and I personally got on quite well with her. What she needed from the forum in general was Bambi, not Rambo.
It is not surprising that believers can't digest the trinity. It doesn't make sense. But it makes more sense than any of the alternatives. Theologians have just as many difficulties trying to justify it. Personally, I don't teach it because I am not 100% sure it is correct but I have no objection to anyone who does so long as they don't make it a salvation issue. What we need for salvation is to be obedient to the commands of Jesus.
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
Slogan/motto:
". . Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God." Matthew 4:4
Reputation:
April 17th, 2012, 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Reign
G&P was simply unable to enter into complicated discussions. She was often confused and self-contradictory because she could not get a firm grip on issues of any complexity. She often lost arguments because people took advantage of her limited debating abilities. And I am fairly sure that this left her very frustrated. However, none of that makes her a bad person and I personally got on quite well with her. What she needed from the forum in general was Bambi, not Rambo.
It is not surprising that believers can't digest the trinity. It doesn't make sense. But it makes more sense than any of the alternatives. Theologians have just as many difficulties trying to justify it. Personally, I don't teach it because I am not 100% sure it is correct but I have no objection to anyone who does so long as they don't make it a salvation issue. What we need for salvation is to be obedient to the commands of Jesus.
Anyone who has the Holy Spirit abiding within, are promised to be led into all truth. John 16:13
Every new convert I have ever been around, believes the Trinity of God by faith, even if they admit to not understanding it fully. It is a gift of God to them and all of us, who abide in Christ.
It is a BIG mistake to take heresy casually. And anti-Trinitarianism produces quite a host of various heresies!
Trinitarians here on TOL should do their best to explain the teaching according to the Holy Scriptures, but when such teachings are resisted or denied or opposed, then anti-christian wickedness is exposed.
And it is nothing less than that. Denial or rejection of the Triune God is the spirit of anti-christ.
QED
"The immutable God never learned anything and never changed his mind. He knew everything from eternity."
"Experience teaches us nothing; revelation teaches all we need to know."
“ Those who proclaim that the sovereignty of God determines what justice is, (do so) by observing what God actually does. Whatever God does is just.”
Trin believers love to gang up on their opponents and enjoy making them leave. Isn't that bully youngsters do to victims at school and after school?
I could not get g&p's point what is that she was trying to do, but I certainly dont join in ganging up on people the way trins do to their unpopular posters.The way they treat unpopular posters are just despicable and un Christian. They still make fun of her in chat box too. Grow up people.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
April 17th, 2012, 04:19 PM
G&P simply knows that people who deny being in the new covenant, are not born from above and their manners show it.
Most beleivers are not born again and when you are not then you do not know what it is and when you are then you know you are in the new covenant.
Trin believers love to gang up on their opponents and enjoy making them leave. Isn't that bully youngsters do to victims at school and after school?
I could not get g&p's point what is that she was trying to do, but I certainly dont join in ganging up on people the way trins do to their unpopular posters.The way they treat unpopular posters are just despicable and un Christian. They still make fun of her in chat box too. Grow up people.
Well, you really can't gang up on anyone when there aren't that many of you, so as virtues go that was't much.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
April 17th, 2012, 04:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by meshak
Trin believers love to gang up on their opponents and enjoy making them leave. Isn't that bully youngsters do to victims at school and after school?
I could not get g&p's point what is that she was trying to do, but I certainly dont join in ganging up on people the way trins do to their unpopular posters.The way they treat unpopular posters are just despicable and un Christian. They still make fun of her in chat box too. Grow up people.
They can not grow up into the stature of Christ if they deny the new covenant inaugerated by Christ 2000 years ago.
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