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I agree with grace & peace here. Its not rotten theology, its scriptural theology. OSAS is a lie, and I think your display of belittling her here is off base. She didn't leave in a huff, she simply wanted to delete her account, and she was always full of dignity. She was wonderfully against hyper dispensationalism, and she had a tenacity that would not back down. She went after it (probably a little too obsessed with it but her hatred of it was great to see). She was a bit like what how you used to be with it before you had a change of heart.
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I respectfully disagree as you know, and thanks for the link...ah those were the days We ALL put ourselves up to be pilloried when we enter into theological debate Andy and I fight as fiercely [if more politely I hope] for the doctrines I hold to be true, let people argue against them...perhaps they will prove to be right, but they would need to show it from a plain and simple scripture lawfully used, that is not twisting it out of all context.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
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April 18th, 2012, 06:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Totton Linnet
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I respectfully disagree as you know, and thanks for the link...ah those were the days We ALL put ourselves up to be pilloried when we enter into theological debate Andy and I fight as fiercely [if more politely I hope] for the doctrines I hold to be true, let people argue against them...perhaps they will prove to be right, but they would need to show it from a plain and simple scripture lawfully used, that is not twisting it out of all context.
STPNew Tots
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
This is absolutely right.
There will always be errors that are relatively harmless and based on simple misunderstandings. There's a difference between error and heresy. Error comes from ignorance, whereas with heresy there is a sinister motive at the heart of it.
Totton (Susanne) was once the biggest opposer here of hyper dispensationism, and the madists really set on her big time. And like g&p she was very gracious how she dealt with them all. I remember one of the MADists here called her a tart, and they ruthlessly mocked her hoping and waiting for her to respond in such a way that would lead to her banning. Even I waited for her to implode as she was being bombarded with insults. And yet she was just a fairly new born babe in Christ at something like 19 years of age.
Here's a taste of the of the former tots in action
I still am at odds with the MADianites with regards to where the scriptures are rightly divided...but I have always believed in dispensations and they are stalawarts for the doctrines I hold most dear, the everlastingness of everlasting life among others.
You crazy madsters are have quite an extensive list of what's a perverted gospels that many traditional orthodox believers would not have the same level of issue with.
Was the issue that she was none mad or that she was strongly anti trin?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
She gets grief because she is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She is a perverter of the gospel. And her mouth will be stopped.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
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April 18th, 2012, 11:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
She gets grief because she is a wolf in sheep's clothing. She is a perverter of the gospel. And her mouth will be stopped.
You crazy madsters are have quite an extensive list of what's a perverted gospels that many traditional orthodox believers would not have the same level of issue with.
Was the issue that she was none mad or that she was strongly anti trin?
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My issue with Gracie was always conditional salvation [freewill doctrine is the mother and father of conditional salvation] it is not an unimportant matter, whether having been saved with so great a salvation [the Lord knowing full well our sinfulness and waywardness] the Lord will prove unfaithful as we are unfaithful or whether undertaking the great matter of our personal salvation into hand He will perform that which He has promised.
The argument is VITAL not indeed to our salvation but to our growth and walk with God. Whether we will skip joyfully to keep up with Him or whether we will drag far behind fearing perhaps if He should turn to look upon us His face will be an angry frown.
It also has issues as to how we share the gospel with others, I know I've been apreachin' with them once, we start out the same
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" we call out, "whosoever shall call upon the Lord shall be saved" we cry in unison.
It never fails, among the cajoling and booing and mocking will come at least one precious soul to enquire "can it be so simple as that?" and THAT'S where the problem starts. I say "YES, YES, let's call upon the Lord together now and you will PROVE the truth of the matter" but it is not so with the free willers, the dark clouds of conditionality start to roll, the ahs, the buts, the maybes and peradventures. And the light that was there in the eyes of the enquirer is gone agone.
People wonder why the clog is on in evangelism, why the church is at such a low ebb, I say it is because the free will theology has gotten a stranglehold on the church and will and IS choking the life out of the plain and simple gospel.
People wonder why the clog is on in evangelism, why the church is at such a low ebb, I say it is because the free will theology has gotten a stranglehold on the church and will and IS choking the life out of the plain and simple gospel.
The doctrines of election and predestination are far from simple. The doctrines of Arminianism have never really taken hold of Christianity because they don't make sense. Doctrines have to be coherent first. When they are coherent, you test them against scripture.
Open theism is not especially a free will theology and I personally try to avoid the term. My church, which is an 'open' church has been growing so much that it has had two new premises in 4 years. People want reality and they want answers to their questions, not paradoxes, mysteries and fluff. People don't usually need to be told how to read - they can read and understand the Bible for themselves. Calvinists (like Lon) and Arminians (like AndyC) need to justify loads of scriptures because they don't fit into their theology but new Christians aren't interested in that, they don't want to treated like imbeciles. It is doing that that is the reason why the church has not been growing in the west. All we do in our open church is tell people what scripture says and help them to be obedient to what Christ commands in the power of the Spirit; they don't get theology - the Holy Spirit is quite capable of directing them, without us telling them what to believe. That is our faith.
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
The doctrines of election and predestination are far from simple. The doctrines of Arminianism have never really taken hold of Christianity because they don't make sense. Doctrines have to be coherent first. When they are coherent, you test them against scripture.
Open theism is not especially a free will theology and I personally try to avoid the term. My church, which is an 'open' church has been growing so much that it has had two new premises in 4 years. People want reality and they want answers to their questions, not paradoxes, mysteries and fluff. People don't usually need to be told how to read - they can read and understand the Bible for themselves. Calvinists (like Lon) and Arminians (like AndyC) need to justify loads of scriptures because they don't fit into their theology but new Christians aren't interested in that, they don't want to treated like imbeciles. It is doing that that is the reason why the church has not been growing in the west. All we do in our open church is tell people what scripture says and help them to be obedient to what Christ commands in the power of the Spirit; they don't get theology - the Holy Spirit is quite capable of directing them, without us telling them what to believe. That is our faith.
This is insightful and excellent analysis.
However, it is hard to believe your church is growing if your church is preaching to be obedient to Jesus.
Most people are not interested in being obedient to Jesus. Why do you think I have been attacked by most trin believers?
I have been preaching to be obedient to Jesus and they tell me I am legalistic and "work based salvation."
The trin churches are super majority because they dont push to be obedient to Jesus.
I know two pastors got kicked out of their church in my neighborhood, and lost job as pastor because they were preaching to be obedient to Jesus. One was Baptist and the other was Methodist.
However, it is hard to believe your church is growing if your church is preaching to be obedient to Jesus.
Most people are not interested in being obedient to Jesus. Why do you think I have been attacked by most trin believers?
I have been preaching to be obedient to Jesus and they tell me I am legalistic and "work based salvation."
The trin churches are super majority because they dont push to be obedient to Jesus.
I know two pastors got kicked out of their church in my neighborhood, and lost job as pastor because they were preaching to be obedient to Jesus. One was Baptist and the other was Methodist.
One obvious possibility is that when people are obedient to Jesus, they love one another. Because there is so much love around, people are attracted to it. This has nothing to do with being trinitarian
Total Misanthropy. Uncertain salvation. Luck of the draw. Irresistible damnation. Persecution of the saints.
One obvious possibility is that when people are obedient to Jesus, they love one another. Because there is so much love around, people are attracted to it. This has nothing to do with being trinitarian
I dont know any church that dont love their church members.
Jesus' is for everyone, not just for your own church members
We ALL put ourselves up to be pilloried when we enter into theological debate Andy and I fight as fiercely [if more politely I hope] for the doctrines I hold to be true, let people argue against them...perhaps they will prove to be right, but they would need to show it from a plain and simple scripture lawfully used, that is not twisting it out of all context.
New Tots
April 19th, 2012, 07:42 AM
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