ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
Christian Beliefs -- The Gospel -
April 20th, 2012, 01:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate
"If anyone says that a man who is justified and however perfect is not bound to observe the commandments of God and the church, BUT ONLY TO BELIEVE, as if the Gospel were a bare and absolute promise of eternal life without the condition of observing the commandments, let him be anathema. (Council of Trent, Canon #20)
This is a Catholic belief.
My question here is if it is Christian.
It is important to know the gospel. What it is. What it means for our lives. What is the gospel? Is there room for what it is said was said here at the Council of Trent?
Cruciform says the issue is antinomianism. Maybe that is not the issue.
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and you will be saved.
What does this mean?
The gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes.
What does this mean?
If we say we love God but hate our brother, the truth is not in us.
If we say we have faith, but don't have works, do we lie against what is true? Is it then the case that we are not saved?
Obedience to the gospel is important. Is this obedience belief only? Is there repentance? Is there room for a response to God? Can a person turn from their sins to righteousness?
1 Corinthians 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
CANON III.-If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema.
CANON X.-If any one saith, that men are just without the justice of Christ, whereby He merited for us to be justified; or that it is by that justice itself that they are formally just; let him be anathema.
What's wrong? Can't work out a synthesis? That's because it's not actually a disagreement over whether we are saved by our works or by our faith. Catholics don't believe we are saved by our works. The disagreement is over what it means to have faith in Jesus Christ. Mere intellectual assent? Or is there far more to faith than that?
"So as not to exchange one evil for another, this poor land must be saved from the scourge of friend and foe alike." - Friedrich Schiller
Posting ability officially rated "pretty good" by Delmar.
CANON I.-If any one saith, that man may be justified before God by his own works, whether done through the teaching of human nature, or that of the law, without the grace of God through Jesus Christ; let him be anathema.
CANON III.-If any one saith, that without the prevenient inspiration of the Holy Ghost, and without his help, man can believe, hope, love, or be penitent as he ought, so as that the grace of justification may be bestowed upon him; let him be anathema.
CANON X.-If any one saith, that men are just without the justice of Christ, whereby He merited for us to be justified; or that it is by that justice itself that they are formally just; let him be anathema.
Thank you for providing some context.
Quote:
What's wrong? Can't work out a synthesis? That's because it's not actually a disagreement over whether we are saved by our works or by our faith. Catholics don't believe we are saved by our works. The disagreement is over what it means to have faith in Jesus Christ. Mere intellectual assent? Or is there far more to faith than that?
Is it possible to be saved without faith?
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 01:49 PM
Dangerous Question: What is "the faith that saves"?
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Location: On a sea of glass mixed with fire in front of a throne.
Rep Power: 49675
Christian (Other)
Right Winger
Slogan/motto:
Overcome by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of your testimony; and love not your life unto death.
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 01:50 PM
Revelation 14:6-7
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 01:50 PM
God may chose to save someone that does not have faith if he so desires.
After all, God can do whatever he pleases with his creation and is not bound by our sense of right and wrong and what is moral. God created the idea of right and wrong.. he can do as he pleases with it.
God is the sole elector... and everything he does is just and right.
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 01:51 PM
Corollary: "Is faith a gift from God?"
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 01:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
God may chose to save someone that does not have faith if he so desires.
After all, God can do whatever he pleases with his creation and is not bound by our sense of right and wrong and what is moral. God created the idea of right and wrong.. he can do as he pleases with it.
God is the sole elector... and everything he does is just and right.
Matthew 20:1-16?
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 02:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by genuineoriginal
Revelation 14:6-7
6And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
God is God, and some do not recognize Him as God. They have no activity in their life that communicates that they understand who He is and how that should affect what they think and do.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 02:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
Faith/belief is the human requirement. Grace is the free gift.
My understanding is that salvation is the gift.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 02:19 PM
What is the gospel?
Should we say the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ?
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
Slogan/motto:
Deuteronomy 6:6 (KJV) And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
Reputation:
April 20th, 2012, 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Untellectual
My understanding is that salvation is the gift.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sky.
God's grace is salvation for those who believe.
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:
Ephesians 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
Deuteronomy 10:12 (KJV) And now, Israel, what doth the LORD thy God require of thee, but to fear the LORD thy God, to walk in all his ways, and to love him, and to serve the LORD thy God with all thy heart and with all thy soul,
Deuteronomy 10:13 (KJV) To keep the commandments of the LORD, and his statutes, which I command thee this day for thy good?
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