ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Try to be civil in the face of incivility. This is a test.
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April 23rd, 2012, 04:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by freelight
Can we get from the Spirit further elaboration, another 'interpretation' of this? I detect it has some esoteric coding therein
I think its pretty awesome being a 'channel' for God.
pj
Yes, I was trying to get at the Spirit at work when two or three are gathered together and they may accomplish more than each individual on his/her own. The Spirit is channeling each person in a gathering and they in turn may accomplish heroic things. This is to my mind a gift of the Holy Spirit still at work today.
All I've ever seen you do is try to poke holes in MAD.
I set out to explain scripture doing the least possible violence to the plain language of the scripture. MAD jumps in the way with it's overstretched distortions od prooftexts and usage of words as if they never had real definitions until MAD guys invented them.
MAD theology is like a lead Zeppelin that way: thin, fragile, slow, and unprotected. Getting over the little mad fighters zipping around angrily shooting at everything that moves without losing my love for them was the only trouble MAD gave me.
The Holy Spirit is my invaluable Leader showing me how best to handle them.
Jesus Christ showed His disciples how to follow God as a dear child.
Jesus Christ sent His disciples to teach the nations how to follow God as dear children.
Following God as a dear child will teach you all the theology you need.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
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April 23rd, 2012, 05:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
Yeah, it has to because it is an adjective. The idea that "some are given..." indicates/provides 'gifts' rather some other noun (like abilities) or pronoun (like things).
But why gifts? That seems rather specific, unnecessarily so.
Considering that many things spiritual are covered in I Cor 12-14.
Looking through Young's, there are a variety of subjects covered under the umbrella of "pneumatikos" besides "gifts".
Romans 7:14 the law
Romans 15:27
I Corinthians 2:13 things
I Corinthians 2:15;3:1 people that are spiritual or not
I Corinthians 9:11 things
I Corinthians 10:3-4 meat, drink, and rock
etc.
Seeing that I Corinthians 12-14 covers a multitude of spiritual matters, which I point out just in the first few verses of chap 12, why translate pneumatikos as spiritual gifts
Why not just "spiritual matters"?
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
"I would that ye all spake with tongues but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying."
Mark 16:17
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;"
I Corinthians 14:18
"I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:"
1. So what's holding you back?
and
2. what are you going to do about it?
oatmeal
Lets look at the rest:
18 I thank my God I speak with tongues more than you all; 19 yet in the church I would rather speak five words with my understanding, that I may teach others also, than ten thousand words in a tongue.
Tongues a Sign to Unbelievers
20 Brethren, do not be children in understanding; however, in malice be babes, but in understanding be mature.
21 In the law it is written:
“With men of other tongues and other lips
I will speak to this people;
And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me,”
says the Lord.
22 Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers
Tongues were a sign for unbelievers, in the early church to spread the gospel to those who spoke other languages so it could be heard and understood in ones own language.
Not needed today with bible versions in many languages.
So whats holding me back? nothing, i speak english and those i witness to, speak english, they understand my 'tongue'.
What am i going to about it? God already gave His word and I use it to reach other english speaking people.
Non believers who speak english can understand me in their own tongue already.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
April 23rd, 2012, 07:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
Because 'some are given' 1 Corinithians 12:8
Yes.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of knowledge.....
one is pronoun, to what is it referring to?
the closest antecedent noun?
Which is for "profit" that for the profiting of self and others.
When Peter and John healed the lame man in Acts 3, all three profited as well as those who saw the healed man walking and leaping and praising God. They profited by hearing what Peter and John taught them.
The manifestation listed in I Corinthians 12:8-10 is profitable, each in their own way.
Word of knowledge is profitable for the knowledge received.
Word or wisdom is profitable for the wisdom received.
And so on.
I Corinthians 12:1 introduces spiritual matters, things of the spirit.
There are a variety of spiritual matters that are covered in I Corinthians 12-14
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
1Ti 6:9 But they that will be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into many foolish and hurtful lusts, which drown men in destruction and perdition.
...
17 Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
18 That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
19 Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.
Lu 1:53 He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away.
Lu 6:24 But woe unto you that are rich! for ye have received your consolation.
25 Woe unto you that are full! for ye shall hunger. Woe unto you that laugh now! for ye shall mourn and weep.
26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for so did their fathers to the false prophets.
Lk 16:23 And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Jas 2:5 Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him?
Jas 5:1 Go to now, ye rich men, weep and howl for your miseries that shall come upon you.
2 Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are motheaten.
3 Your gold and silver is cankered; and the rust of them shall be a witness against you, and shall eat your flesh as it were fire. Ye have heaped treasure together for the last days.
4 Behold, the hire of the labourers who have reaped down your fields, which is of you kept back by fraud, crieth: and the cries of them which have reaped are entered into the ears of the Lord of sabaoth.
5 Ye have lived in pleasure on the earth, and been wanton; ye have nourished your hearts, as in a day of slaughter.
6 Ye have condemned and killed the just; and he doth not resist you.
Jesus Christ showed His disciples how to follow God as a dear child.
Jesus Christ sent His disciples to teach the nations how to follow God as dear children.
Following God as a dear child will teach you all the theology you need.
For to one is given by the Spirit the word of knowledge.....
one is pronoun, to what is it referring to?
the closest antecedent noun?
hekastos which means: men, woman, ones
Quote:
Originally Posted by oatmeal
Which is for "profit" that for the profiting of self and others.
When Peter and John healed the lame man in Acts 3, all three profited as well as those who saw the healed man walking and leaping and praising God. They profited by hearing what Peter and John taught them.
The manifestation listed in I Corinthians 12:8-10 is profitable, each in their own way.
Word of knowledge is profitable for the knowledge received.
Word or wisdom is profitable for the wisdom received.
And so on.
I Corinthians 12:1 introduces spiritual matters, things of the spirit.
There are a variety of spiritual matters that are covered in I Corinthians 12-14
oatmeal
I'm not quite following. Observations? Something you are sharing about the text and your observations? Just musings that will be put together a bit later? Sorry, I'm not meaning to miss it.
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
There are quite a few healers out there, using different healing modalities, energy work, religious/holistic or otherwise. All healing of course is from 'God'. - there is no reason to believe the Holy Spirit is no longer dynamically active, or that the anointing for healing or miracles has somehow ceased. Why would one assume that? Where 2 or 3 are gathered...there the Presence of God is. Wouldnt you agree that where God is, there is all Power? Do you deny the Is-ness of God, here, NOW?
I guess you can faith in the Spirit's power or assume its no longer available (present).
All can serve as 'channels' for 'God'.
pj
There is a difference between a skill set and a spiritual gift. Do you know of someone today that lays on hands for instant healing?
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
*************************************
Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Dear NickM,
You can't show any scripture, at all, that says when tongues will cease.Here's what it says.
"Charity never faileth; but, whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away."
You are a demon possessed pig, and you are exposed just like godrulz, graceandpeace, andyc and all the other clowns here. You made no effort to address what I said, when I quoted scripture. Which is not an accident on your part.
You know what God said to do with those like you that have a familiar spirit? That is what he will do with you at your judgement.
Colossians 1:24-28
“I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
There is a difference between a skill set and a spiritual gift. Do you know of someone today that lays on hands for instant healing?
Many report healings among churches, healing ministries, and those who believe in the power of prayer. Testimonies abound. The power of prayer (the effect of faith, consciousness, intent, meditation, oneness with God) has an effect on one's being (spirit, soul and body), - such things are even being scientifically confirmed and studied.
Laying on of hands is practiced by other cultures/religious traditions and schools: theraputic touch, Reiki, polarity, energy work - these may require a 'skill set' or is an art/science that is "learned"....but a psychic/spiritual ability or 'gifting' may also be involved.
There is actually energy-transfer and effects of healing, where the Spirit's presence of Love is manifesting, - these things are tangible at times. Since you do not believe in such operations of the Spirit or fellowship with believers that do, you are limited in experiencing the reality of such. Some things are a matter of faith, practice and experience.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
April 24th, 2012, 03:49 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker
Dear STP,
When you respond like this, I take it that you have not found anything in my words that you can dispute. Since you can't leave bad enough alone, you are trying to get me to increase my words until you can find something to use against me. Diabolical, STP.
Your response is telling.
I would like to know what was known in part, and prophesied in part at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians. Do you know?
If you know what was done in part, you can know "that which is perfect" (not in part).
I can see through your pious condescending "concern" for the readers of TOL, steering them away from the evil MADists.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
April 24th, 2012, 03:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trumpetfolker
Like LDS... & MAD.
And Trumpetfolkerism.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
April 24th, 2012, 03:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
You are a demon possessed pig, and you are exposed just like godrulz, graceandpeace, andyc and all the other clowns here. You made no effort to address what I said, when I quoted scripture. Which is not an accident on your part.
You know what God said to do with those like you that have a familiar spirit? That is what he will do with you at your judgement.
Colossians 1:24-28
“I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Yes, brother Nick
The Great Trumpetfolker will not acknowledge that at the time Paul wrote 1 Corinthians he had not yet finished his course, he had not yet testified the gospel of the grace of God, he had not yet fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in his own body, and he had not yet fulfilled or completed the word of God.
In other words, that which is perfect had not yet come at the time he wrote 1 Corinthians.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
Reputation:
April 24th, 2012, 04:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick M
Colossians 1:24-28
“I now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up in my flesh what is lacking in the afflictions of Christ, for the sake of His body, which is the church, of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus.
Yes,
2 Corinthians 12:6 For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me.
Paul knew some things, that even at the time he wrote 2 Corinthians, he had not yet revealed.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Healing energies -
April 24th, 2012, 02:38 AM
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