[Jordan Fontenot]

Originally Posted by Buzzword

How do you define "better" seating?
Is your sanctuary divided into blacks-only and whites-only or something?

I've never seen a church sanctuary which was arranged in any way besides centering on the stage/pulpit.

My wife and I are part of our church's worship team, and we sit near the back.

Still waiting on an explanation of your irrational hatred of musical instruments.

I have not hatred toward musical instruments. I play 7 or 8 instruments myself. I'm not saying you're going to hell for using instruments either. Personally I believe that instruments remove the point of worship music; to take the breath God has given us and give it back in praise. I am just stating my reasoning for why I don't think they're good for worship. If we start putting people on the stage to play music there are some situations which can occur which can cause issues.

1) The instruments cause a moral divide in the congregation, causing conflict for the morals of some.

2) The instruments become distractions and sometimes cause us to forget why we are singing or even what we are singing

3) Those who play the instrument receive favored treatment because of their talent

4) We imitate secular society and start reflecting a more secular image of Christ than God intends.

By no means am I saying that any of this is what's happening in your congregation. However what I am saying is if there is the potential for that many issues, why not take instruments out of the equation? Colossians 3:16 says to admonish one another in psalms hymns and spiritual songs. Though I don't believe it's a sin to use them I don't believe it's best, because worship music shouldn't be based on how good it sounds physically but about how willing we are to offer our hearts and minds to God with the voices that he has given us.

[This Charming Manc]

Whats it like to be more holy than God?

He said use instruments (all of the psalms as quote), if he is fine with it, I am fine with .

Your argument sounds great, but God seems to disagree!

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

I have not hatred toward musical instruments. I play 7 or 8 instruments myself. I'm not saying you're going to hell for using instruments either. Personally I believe that instruments remove the point of worship music; to take the breath God has given us and give it back in praise. I am just stating my reasoning for why I don't think they're good for worship. If we start putting people on the stage to play music there are some situations which can occur which can cause issues.

1) The instruments cause a moral divide in the congregation, causing conflict for the morals of some.

2) The instruments become distractions and sometimes cause us to forget why we are singing or even what we are singing

3) Those who play the instrument receive favored treatment because of their talent

4) We imitate secular society and start reflecting a more secular image of Christ than God intends.

By no means am I saying that any of this is what's happening in your congregation. However what I am saying is if there is the potential for that many issues, why not take instruments out of the equation? Colossians 3:16 says to admonish one another in psalms hymns and spiritual songs. Though I don't believe it's a sin to use them I don't believe it's best, because worship music shouldn't be based on how good it sounds physically but about how willing we are to offer our hearts and minds to God with the voices that he has given us.

[Jordan Fontenot]

Originally Posted by This Charming Manc

Whats it like to be more holy than God?

He said use instruments (all of the psalms as quote), if he is fine with it, I am fine with .

Your argument sounds great, but God seems to disagree!

I don't think it's totally fair to say God disagrees. God never explicitly says one way or the other. To be honest I don't think God cares about instruments, he does care about how we worship him though and if instruments effect that in a negative way I don't see any other way to take it. I'm not trying to make myself more holy than God, I'm just trying to make a point that sometimes instruments aren't the best idea.

[Cleekster]

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

I believe that instruments remove the point of worship music; to take the breath God has given us and give it back in praise.

could this not just as easily be done with a trumpet or flute? is it also not possible to consider that aperson who's talent is guitar, that the guitar is his voice?

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

If we start putting people on the stage to play music there are some situations which can occur which can cause issues.

only with people who want to be divisive and disruptive, are easily offended, or are legalistic.

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

1) The instruments cause a moral divide in the congregation, causing conflict for the morals of some.

so the church should cater to the older legalistic folks who think it ought to be done the way it was when 'mama pete" was still alive, right?

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

2) The instruments become distractions and sometimes cause us to forget why we are singing or even what we are singing

or perhaps it's more the fact that you aren't focusing in on the right thing.

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

3) Those who play the instrument receive favored treatment because of their talent

the same applies to vocalists....people who are gifted for music(or whatever) should get proper recognition when their playing is above average and they use that gift for the glory of God, no?.... otherwise everyone would be musically gifted.

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

4) We imitate secular society and start reflecting a more secular image of Christ than God intends.

not sure exactly what you mean by this.

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

However what I am saying is if there is the potential for that many issues, why not take instruments out of the equation?

or you could find a comprimise that works for every body and not lift a certain segment of the congregation above the rest setting up a Tyranny of the Majority type situation.

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

because worship music shouldn't be based on how good it sounds physically but about how willing we are to offer our hearts and minds to God with the voices that he has given us.

....nothing blows ones worship experience more than someone who can't sing in tune and has poor voice quality.....if God wanted everyone to be musicians then everyone would be equally gifted with respect for their musical ability.

[Jordan Fontenot]

Originally Posted by Cleekster

could this not just as easily be done with a trumpet or flute? is it also not possible to consider that aperson who's talent is guitar, that the guitar is his voice?

only with people who want to be divisive and disruptive, are easily offended, or are legalistic.

so the church should cater to the older legalistic folks who think it ought to be done the way it was when 'mama pete" was still alive, right?

or perhaps it's more the fact that you aren't focusing in on the right thing.

the same applies to vocalists....people who are gifted for music(or whatever) should get proper recognition when their playing is above average and they use that gift for the glory of God, no?.... otherwise everyone would be musically gifted.

not sure exactly what you mean by this.

or you could find a comprimise that works for every body and not lift a certain segment of the congregation above the rest setting up a Tyranny of the Majority type situation.

....nothing blows ones worship experience more than someone who can't sing in tune and has poor voice quality.....if God wanted everyone to be musicians then everyone would be equally gifted with respect for their musical ability.

I'm pretty sure you missed the point of my post sir

[Cleekster]

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

I'm pretty sure you missed the point of my post sir

i suppose it's possible that i misinterpreted what you were saying.....in your opinion what am i not understanding?

[Jordan Fontenot]

Originally Posted by Cleekster

i suppose it's possible that i misinterpreted what you were saying.....in your opinion what am i not understanding?

I'm just giving personal convictions as to why I do not choose to worship with instruments, and the potential problems I see with it. It's not a matter of doctrine or holiness it's just a matter of the heart. That is all I am trying to say.

[Cleekster]

Originally Posted by Jordan Fontenot

I'm just giving personal convictions as to why I do not choose to worship with instruments, and the potential problems I see with it. It's not a matter of doctrine or holiness it's just a matter of the heart. That is all I am trying to say.

i understood, i just didn't agree with you. but thanks for your response.