[Guyver]

Originally Posted by john w

Try: The purpose of the thread should be to discuss what people believe about the Bible, based upon what the bible says of itself, i.e., what saith the scripture, about the scripture? If not, then it's merely an excercise of "my opinion" vs. yours-I'd rather watch Oprah-at least there are some good lookin' chics on there ocassionally.

John. I asked you to define the terms scripture and Bible. You didn't. Is there a difference between the Bible and scripture?

If you don't want to answer....I will. But I'd like to know your perspective first.

[Jedidiah]

Originally Posted by Guyver

I would like to refrain from answering that until I know from someone who believes in Bible inerrancy what exactly they mean by that and why they believe it.

Dear Guyver,

The Bible is the 66 books of the Old and New Testament.

Every single word and phrase and sentence and paragraph and book in the Bible is inerrant.

Inerrant means without error, which practically means that the Bible is fully trustworthy, and that while we can doubt our reading of it, there is no reason to doubt what we are reading.

I believe in the inerrancy of the Bible based upon faith.

When I perceive contradiction, either between two parts of the Bible, or between the Bible and something extrabiblical, because I believe in biblical inerrancy, I also believe that there is a logical explanation for the perception of contradiction, which retains the inerrancy of the Bible.

Without the belief in biblical inerrancy, it is impossible to be secure as a Christian, but believing in biblical inerrancy is not required to be a Christian since it is not mentioned in Romans 10:9-10.

In Him,
-Jed

[Guyver]

Thanks Jed.

[Guyver]

OIC.

I don't want to step on your toes here. You were the one who made the statement that unless someone believes the Bible to be inerrant they cannot be a Christian.

You have stated what you believe. You haven't stated why you believe it.

So, you're running at 50% right now.

I think your belief is faulty. I don't want to explain why it's faulty until you've had a chance to explain why you think it's true.

So are you going to or not?

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

Actually you are wrong on both counts. I used inerrant and you did dodge it.

So, let's clear it up. I define inerrant to mean - without error.

Would you accept that definition? Inerrancy means that there is not the slightest error in the Bible whatsoever. Not a misspelled word, not an incorrect fact, not a contradiction.

That's inerrant. Without a single error.

Now you said that unless a person believes the Bible to be inerrant they cannot be a Christian.

Will you please state where you get this idea, what is the basis for this notion, and stop dodging this particular question?

I accept that definition. I thought that's what infallible meant that's why I gave it as a definition.

Read my words again. I said it is the inerrant work of God. Not just inerrant. If you think the bible is the work of men, why are you putting any faith into it?

[Guyver]

Originally Posted by One In Christ

I accept that definition. I thought that's what infallible meant that's why I gave it as a definition.

Read my words again. I said it is the inerrant work of God. Not just inerrant. If you think the bible is the work of men, why are you putting any faith into it?

If we are to have any meaningful discussion, I think it's important to be able to define terms accurately. I'm not going anywhere. I will answer any question anyone wants me to answer. But, before I do; I think it's important to understand what everyone means.

In three pages of thread, you and I have finally come to an agreement on what inerrant means. It means without any error. That is to say that your opinion of the Bible is that there is not a single flaw of any sort to be found in it.

That's part one.

Part two. You haven't answered yet. You said, in the very first response, that anyone who doesn't believe the Bible to be inerranct cannot even be a Christian.

I've asked you several times where you get this notion and why you believe it to be true. You haven't answered.

If you say that a person cannot be a Christian unless they believe the Bible to be inerrant, that means they cannot be saved, right? So, you're saying that anyone who doesn't believe in Biblical inerrancy is doomed to an eternal torment of hell fire.

I'd like to know why you believe this and where in the Bible it states such.

Is the term inerrant to be found anywhere in the Bible at all?

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

If we are to have any meaningful discussion, I think it's important to be able to define terms accurately. I'm not going anywhere. I will answer any question anyone wants me to answer. But, before I do; I think it's important to understand what everyone means.

In three pages of thread, you and I have finally come to an agreement on what inerrant means. It means without any error. That is to say that your opinion of the Bible is that there is not a single flaw of any sort to be found in it.

That's part one.

Part two. You haven't answered yet. You said, in the very first response, that anyone who doesn't believe the Bible to be inerranct cannot even be a Christian.

I've asked you several times where you get this notion and why you believe it to be true. You haven't answered.

If you say that a person cannot be a Christian unless they believe the Bible to be inerrant, that means they cannot be saved, right? So, you're saying that anyone who doesn't believe in Biblical inerrancy is doomed to an eternal torment of hell fire.

I'd like to know why you believe this and where in the Bible it states such.

Is the term inerrant to be found anywhere in the Bible at all?

I won't answer until you quote me correctly.

"If you say that a person cannot be a Christian unless they believe the Bible to be inerrant"

I didn't say that. I said the inerrant work of God... That's 2 variables.

If you believe the bible to be inerrant, it HAS to come from God.

If you believe it to be with error, then it cannot be from God, therefore it is the works of men, and all you have is a book of false religion.

If you believe it to be inerrant, but from men, then you have a physical impossibility.

[Guyver]

Originally Posted by One In Christ

I won't answer until you quote me correctly.

"If you say that a person cannot be a Christian unless they believe the Bible to be inerrant"

I didn't say that. I said the inerrant work of God... That's 2 variables.

If you believe the bible to be inerrant, it HAS to come from God.

If you believe it to be with error, then it cannot be from God, therefore it is the works of men, and all you have is a book of false religion.

If you believe it to be inerrant, but from men, then you have a physical impossibility.

OK, let me begin by quoting you accurately. You said,

It is the inerrant work of God... If you don't believe this, you call God a liar, and cannot be Christian

So you're right. I left out the part where you said that if someone doesn't believe the Bible to be inerrant they call God a liar.

I stand corrected. Thank you for correcting me.

[Guyver]

So here's my problem with all that.

First of all, you have people like John W who makes this big thread about godrulz and what he believes about the Bible. In that thread he calls him all kinds of names, charleton, Bible disbeliever, etc, etc.

When godrulz has no problem actually telling you what he believes about the Bible and why he believes it.

Then you have OIC saying that if someone doesn't believe in Biblical inerrancy they not only can't be a Christian but they call God a liar.

I call this a phoney religious belief brought about by desires of the flesh.

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

OK, let me begin by quoting you accurately. You said,



So you're right. I left out the part where you said that if someone doesn't believe the Bible to be inerrant they call God a liar.

I stand corrected. Thank you for correcting me.

I don't understand how you don't see:

1. Inerrant
2. The work of God


I never said just inerrant.

[Guyver]

My Bible tells me that salvation is a gift of God specifically brought about by faith in Jesus Christ and his sacrifice.

Addditionally, you won't find the term inerrant in the Bible, nor will you find any scriptures referencing salvation that pose it as a requirement.

Also, you won't even find the term Bible in the Bible except on the front cover or inside the first page.

Point one.

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

So here's my problem with all that.

First of all, you have people like John W who makes this big thread about godrulz and what he believes about the Bible. In that thread he calls him all kinds of names, charleton, Bible disbeliever, etc, etc.

When godrulz has no problem actually telling you what he believes about the Bible and why he believes it.

Then you have OIC saying that if someone doesn't believe in Biblical inerrancy they not only can't be a Christian but they call God a liar.

I call this a phoney religious belief brought about by desires of the flesh.

I answered you. Do you believe the bible to be the inerrant work of God?

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

So here's my problem with all that.

First of all, you have people like John W who makes this big thread about godrulz and what he believes about the Bible. In that thread he calls him all kinds of names, charleton, Bible disbeliever, etc, etc.

When godrulz has no problem actually telling you what he believes about the Bible and why he believes it.

Then you have OIC saying that if someone doesn't believe in Biblical inerrancy they not only can't be a Christian but they call God a liar.

I call this a phoney religious belief brought about by desires of the flesh.

I obviously struck a nerve...

[Guyver]

Originally Posted by One In Christ

I answered you. Do you believe the bible to be the inerrant work of God?

No. The Bible is not inerrant and it's easily proven. I believe the Bible to be trustworthy and that it contains the greatest story ever told.

That is the story of Jesus Christ the Savior of the World.

I also believe that there is a difference between the Bible and the Scriptures, and this I can easily demonstrate.

But I do have a major problem with certain religious people claiming to know who's saved and who's not based upon their own faulty misunderstandings.

And I have a real problem with these posers who enjoy condeming others when they can't even present a solid case themselves.

[One In Christ]

Originally Posted by Guyver

No. The Bible is not inerrant and it's easily proven. I believe the Bible to be trustworthy and that it contains the greatest story ever told.

That is the story of Jesus Christ the Savior of the World.

I also believe that there is a difference between the Bible and the Scriptures, and this I can easily demonstrate.

But I do have a major problem with certain religious people claiming to know who's saved and who's not based upon their own faulty misunderstandings.

And I have a real problem with these posers who enjoy condeming others when they can't even present a solid case themselves.

If you believe that, how
Can you trust anything it says??? After all it's the works of men to you... God cannot make errant things.