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Yes the Lord destroyed him. I have already answered that I don't know who he was and I don't care. To me it's just carnal speculation. Why do you ask me again who he was when I have already answered that I don't know and don't care?
You claim that the Second Coming already happened. This would make your case. Otherwise, it's just your word. And you "don't know" and "don't care."
You claim that the Second Coming already happened. This would make your case. Otherwise, it's just your word. And you "don't know" and "don't care."
It's not just my word. Paul told the Thessalonians that THEY would be delivered from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven." 2 Thessalonians 1:3-8
Did Jesus in fact return to deliver THEM from THEIR persecutors or was Paul a false prophet?
It's not just my word. Paul told the Thessalonians that THEY would be delivered from THEIR persecutions "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven." 2 Thessalonians 1:3-8
You say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come, that He has already been revealed, and Paul says that before that happened, the man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one, who in the early 50's "'IS opposing' and that he 'IS raising himself up' and that he 'HAS sat down' in the temple," would also be revealed 2Th2:8.
So who was he. And if you don't know, how do you know that the Lord already came ? And if the Lord already came, why doesn't everybody know it ?
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Did Jesus in fact return to deliver THEM from THEIR persecutors or was Paul a false prophet?
I don't doubt Paul.
Your answers on the other hand:
"carnal speculation,"
"I don't care,"
"It has nothing to do with me nor the day I live in,"
"The man of sin was THEIR concern and not mine,"
"His identity has no meaning for us today,"
"I don't pay the man of sin any thought."
You say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come, that He has already been revealed, and Paul says that before that happened, the man of sin, the son of perdition, the lawless one, who in the early 50's "'IS opposing' and that he 'IS raising himself up' and that he 'HAS sat down' in the temple," would also be revealed 2Th2:8.
So who was he. And if you don't know, how do you know that the Lord already came ?
I am a Presuppositionalist. A Presuppositionalist "knows" because the Bible says so and for no other reason. There are others who "know" by the empirical method which I reject.
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And if the Lord already came, why doesn't everybody know it ?
If the Lord died for our sins, why doesn't everybody know it?
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I don't doubt Paul.
Convince me.
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Your answers on the other hand:
"carnal speculation,"
"I don't care,"
"It has nothing to do with me nor the day I live in,"
"The man of sin was THEIR concern and not mine,"
"His identity has no meaning for us today,"
"I don't pay the man of sin any thought."
This is correct. I am a Presuppositionalist.
Presuppositionalist: Starts and ends with the Bible
Empiricist: Starts and ends with sensory verification
Paul said that the man of sin "is opposing" and "is raising himself up" and "has sat down" in the temple. It's good enough for me. It means that the man of sin had existed and had ALREADY begun to position himself in THEIR time.
I am a Presuppositionalist. A Presuppositionalist "knows" because the Bible says so and for no other reason. There are others who "know" by the empirical method which I reject.
Good !
Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
If the Lord died for our sins, why doesn't everybody know it?
Stubbornness and pride.
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Convince me.
Nah.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
This is correct. I am a Presuppositionalist.
Presuppositionalist: Starts and ends with the Bible
Empiricist: Starts and ends with sensory verification
Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Paul said that the man of sin "is opposing" and "is raising himself up" and "has sat down" in the temple. It's good enough for me. It means that the man of sin had existed and had ALREADY begun to position himself in THEIR time.
It is good enough for me as a presuppositionalist that the Bible says that he will be revealed before the Lord Jesus Christ comes again. 2Th2:8 So if He has already come again, then who was the lawless one, since he has already been revealed, which, as a presuppositionalist, I believe.
Good !
Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
The Bible says that Jesus would come in the lifetime of the apostles. Jesus told His disciples that some of them would not taste death until they see His coming. He told Caiaphas the high priest that he would see it also. Paul promised the Thessalonians that THEY would be delivered from THEIR persecutors "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven."
So YES the Bible by necessary inference says that Jesus has returned.
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Stubbornness and pride.
And stubbornness and pride is the reason that not all know that Jesus returned. They will stubbornly defend their erroneous pardigms rather than be corrected by the scriptures.
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Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
The Bible says that Jesus would come again in THEIR lifetime. Therefore, by necessary inference the Bible says that Jesus has come.
That which is necessarily inferred from scripture is the word of God. Example: God said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Jesus inferred the resurrection from this saying, "He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Therefore, the statement, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" is an implicit statement for the resurrection.
Likewise, Jesus' statement to His disciples that some of them would not taste death until they see the Son of Man come is an implicit statement that He has come. If you assume that only explicit statements are the word of God you are wrong. That which is explicitly set forth in scripture and deduced by necessary consequence is EQUALLY the word of God.
So YES the Bible by necessary consequence says that Jesus has returned.
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It is good enough for me as a presuppositionalist that the Bible says that he will be revealed before the Lord Jesus Christ comes again. 2Th2:8 So if He has already come again, then who was the lawless one, since he has already been revealed, which, as a presuppositionalist, I believe.
You assume that the first christians thought it important enough to record his identity for us. You assume without demonstrating it that God thought it important for future generations to know. You need to dump vain speculations about his identity.
Did Jesus return to deliver the Thessalonians from THEIR persecutions or was Paul a FALSE prophet?
Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
The Bible says that Jesus would come in the lifetime of the apostles. Jesus told His disciples that some of them would not taste death until they see His coming. He told Caiaphas the high priest that he would see it also. Paul promised the Thessalonians that THEY would be delivered from THEIR persecutors "when the Lord Jesus is revealed from heaven."
So YES the Bible by necessary inference says that Jesus has returned.
So no.
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
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Originally Posted by Jedidiah
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
If the Lord died for our sins, why doesn't everybody know it?
Stubbornness and pride.
And stubbornness and pride is the reason that not all know that Jesus returned. They will stubbornly defend their erroneous pardigms rather than be corrected by the scriptures.
Nope.
Show us the equivalent 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, 2 Corinthians 5:14-15 or 21, Galatians 3:13, 1 Peter 2:24, or 3:18.
Show us in the Bible, with the same simplicity and clarity, that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedidiah
Does the Bible say that the Lord Jesus Christ has already come again ?
Yes or no.
The Bible says that Jesus would come again in THEIR lifetime. Therefore, by necessary inference the Bible says that Jesus has come.
That which is necessarily inferred from scripture is the word of God. Example: God said, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Jesus inferred the resurrection from this saying, "He is not the God of the dead but of the living." Therefore, the statement, "I am the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob" is an implicit statement for the resurrection.
Likewise, Jesus' statement to His disciples that some of them would not taste death until they see the Son of Man come is an implicit statement that He has come. If you assume that only explicit statements are the word of God you are wrong. That which is explicitly set forth in scripture and deduced by necessary consequence is EQUALLY the word of God.
So YES the Bible by necessary consequence says that Jesus has returned.
So no.
Luke 17:30 1 Corinthians 1:7 2 Thessalonians 1:7 1 Peter 1:7
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