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The reason Unitarians can't agree on who Jesus is -
April 26th, 2012, 12:14 PM
I have discoursed with many kinds of Unitarians over the course of several years and I have found the same thing in common among them here as I have found elsewhere. They cannot agree on who Jesus is. There are so many Unitarian views of Jesus that I call all Unitarianism the "Heinz 57" theology.
There is a reason for this. Unitarians deny that men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. Therefore, they are left to their own individual and SUBJECTIVE views on how much the Son is to be honored. Their various views regarding the person of the Son determines the degree to which they honor Him. They are forced to match their view of Jesus with the degree they will honor Him. But the Father's mandate that the Son be honored "EVEN AS" Himself takes away all human subjectivity."
To the extent that men do not honor the Son is the extent to which they do not honor the Father.
"That all men should honour the Son, EVEN AS they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 KJV
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
April 26th, 2012, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
I have discoursed with many kinds of Unitarians over the course of several years and I have found the same thing in common among them here as I have found elsewhere. They cannot agree on who Jesus is. There are so many Unitarian views of Jesus that I call all Unitarianism the "Heinz 57" theology.
There is a reason for this. Unitarians deny that men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. Therefore, they are left to their own individual and SUBJECTIVE views on how much the Son is to be honored. Their various views regarding the person of the Son determines the degree to which they honor Him. They are forced to match their view of Jesus with the degree they will honor Him. But the Father's mandate that the Son be honored "EVEN AS" Himself takes away all human subjectivity."
To the extent that men do not honor the Son is the extent to which they do not honor the Father.
"That all men should honour the Son, EVEN AS they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 KJV
Actually the trinitarian doctrine does not honor the Son as the Father because they regard the Son to be a brother of the Father and not a Son.
The Son can not be a man at the same time as being a fellow creator God with the Father.
To suggest that God the Son became a little baby in Mary, fathered by the Holy Spirit other God, is to confuse everyone who adheres to that rubbish doctrine from the fallen churches.
If God only put on a human body by being born a man then the atonement is not lawful and the resurrection of Christ was just a pretence for their would be no Jesus who is a man in Heaven but only a return to Heaven of a God clothed in resurrected flesh, and in many instances the resurrected flesh is believed to be not there either.
Actually the trinitarian doctrine does not honor the Son as the Father because they regard the Son to be a brother of the Father and not a Son.
You're wrong and you know it. All Trinitarians worship the Son and honor the Son as they honor the Father.
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The Son can not be a man at the same time as being a fellow creator God with the Father.
Define "man." Man is in the image of God and Jesus is the Eternal Image.
Image = Man
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To suggest that God the Son became a little baby in Mary, fathered by the Holy Spirit other God, is to confuse everyone who adheres to that rubbish doctrine from the fallen churches.
I do not subscribe to the certain tradition in trinitarianism which suggests that the Holy Spirit fathered Jesus. The Spirit overpowered Mary's virgin womb so the Word could Himself impregnate her. Paul said that Jesus "took upon Himself" the form of a servant. I believe that Jesus entered into the virgin's womb Himself. Jesus said that He "came down from heaven."
Jesus impreganated Mary's womb Himself. The Spirit "overhsadowed" regarding Mary's womb.
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If God only put on a human body by being born a man then the atonement is not lawful and the resurrection of Christ was just a pretence for their would be no Jesus who is a man in Heaven but only a return to Heaven of a God clothed in resurrected flesh, and in many instances the resurrected flesh is believed to be not there either.
LA
Huh?
Do you honor the Son "EVEN AS" you honor the Father? Yes or no?
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
I have discoursed with many kinds of Unitarians over the course of several years and I have found the same thing in common among them here as I have found elsewhere. They cannot agree on who Jesus is. There are so many Unitarian views of Jesus that I call all Unitarianism the "Heinz 57" theology.
There is a reason for this. Unitarians deny that men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. Therefore, they are left to their own individual and SUBJECTIVE views on how much the Son is to be honored. Their various views regarding the person of the Son determines the degree to which they honor Him. They are forced to match their view of Jesus with the degree they will honor Him. But the Father's mandate that the Son be honored "EVEN AS" Himself takes away all human subjectivity."
To the extent that men do not honor the Son is the extent to which they do not honor the Father.
"That all men should honour the Son, EVEN AS they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 KJV
I think your problem is like Apple7's, you think you know Greek and you base your faith on it, but your Greek is not the same as the translators.
The father is greater than the son and deserves more worship. The son has ONLY what the Father has given him. The Father sent the son, the father spoke through the son. The son was a man. You have a hard time with that. God sent a man to be the Lamb of God.
You support your church ideas rather than looking at truth. God did not send himself, he sent his son. His son is the image of God. We can see God by learning what the son was preaching for God was IN him. God did not die on the cross, a man did.
We give glory to the Father and the son. But never are they equal. No one is or ever will be equal to the Father. But now, Jesus is Lord of all creation, made so by his God.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
I think your problem is like Apple7's, you think you know Greek and you base your faith on it, but your Greek is not the same as the translators.
What are you talking about? The translators say "even as" or "just as." Show a translation which says that the Son is to be honored "less than" the Father. Even the New World Translation which is anti-trinitarian says "JUST AS."
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The father is greater than the son and deserves more worship.
First, the Father WAS (not is) greater than the Son. The 'is' is what was true THEN but not now. The Son went back to where He was before when He was equal.
Second, Jesus contradicts you. He said that the Father has committed ALL judgment to Him in order that ALL men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. To honor the Son a little is to honor the Father a little. To honor the Son above all is to honor the Father above all. An elderly man as yourself should not resist statements that even a child can understand.
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The son has ONLY what the Father has given him. The Father sent the son, the father spoke through the son.
And the Son had EQUAL honor given Him. So pay it!!
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We give glory to the Father and the son.
The degree of honor you render to the Father is contingent upon the degree of honor you render to the Son. You are in disobedience my man!
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
April 26th, 2012, 03:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
What are you talking about? The translators say "even as" or "just as." Show a translation which says that the Son is to be honored "less than" the Father. Even the New World Translation which is anti-trinitarian says "JUST AS."
First, the Father WAS (not is) greater than the Son. The 'is' is what was true THEN but not now. The Son went back to where He was before when He was equal.
Second, Jesus contradicts you. He said that the Father has committed ALL judgment to Him in order that ALL men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. To honor the Son a little is to honor the Father a little. To honor the Son above all is to honor the Father above all. An elderly man as yourself should not resist statements that even a child can understand.
And the Son had EQUAL honor given Him. So pay it!!
The degree of honor you render to the Father is contingent upon the degree of honor you render to the Son. You are in disobedience my man!
I agree that the son is honored equal to the Father but only because of the Father being IN Him AND because the Son has been made to be as the Father is by his word, only in regard to the Creation, and because of Gods decree.
You have no say in wether others do or say anything, and you have no knowledge of how others honor the Son or His Father.
I agree that the son is honored equal to the Father but only because of the Father being IN Him...
The Son was IN the Father too. So your one sided 'in' principle is false because the 'in' principle was reciprocal. Jesus said that the mighty works He done was the result of the Father being in Him and His being in the Father (John 10:37-38).
A half truth is a FULL lie!
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AND because the Son has been made to be as the Father is by his word, only in regard to the Creation, and because of Gods decree.
Where did you get this? Paul said that Jesus preexisted as God but made Himself nothing and then God exalted Him again (Philippians 2:5-11). Tell the WHOLE story!
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You have no say in wether others do or say anything, and you have no knowledge of how others honor the Son or His Father.
I may speak if others are posting that the Son is to be honored less than the Father. If you don't want to hear from me then don't invite my responses by posting your views.
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
April 26th, 2012, 04:06 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
I have discoursed with many kinds of Unitarians over the course of several years and I have found the same thing in common among them here as I have found elsewhere. They cannot agree on who Jesus is. There are so many Unitarian views of Jesus that I call all Unitarianism the "Heinz 57" theology.
There is a reason for this. Unitarians deny that men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. Therefore, they are left to their own individual and SUBJECTIVE views on how much the Son is to be honored. Their various views regarding the person of the Son determines the degree to which they honor Him. They are forced to match their view of Jesus with the degree they will honor Him. But the Father's mandate that the Son be honored "EVEN AS" Himself takes away all human subjectivity."
To the extent that men do not honor the Son is the extent to which they do not honor the Father.
"That all men should honour the Son, EVEN AS they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 KJV
So we do honor the son even as we honor the Father.
The son always did the Father's will.
That is very honorable.
When we do the Father's will, that is honorable as well.
oatmeal.
take , eat, it's good for you
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
So we do honor the son even as we honor the Father.
The son always did the Father's will.
That is very honorable.
When we do the Father's will, that is honorable as well.
oatmeal.
take , eat, it's good for you
Honor = worship Revelation 5:13-14
Who do you think you're kidding when you say you honor the Son "even as" you honor the Father? Just recently Guildenstern denied that Christ is "THE Savior of us" as Paul said. Guild said that Christ only has a "role" in salvation. If you guys honored the Son as you honor the Father you would confess the Son as "THE Savior of you" (Titus 3:4-6).
So we do honor the son even as we honor the Father.
The son always did the Father's will.
That is very honorable.
When we do the Father's will, that is honorable as well.
oatmeal.
take , eat, it's good for you
Sure, yet Jesus was already ONE with the FATHER from eternity, not physical birth.
Oatmeal may be good, but it is not God's revelation of Himself....... do not take nor eat of this variety of godly revelation.
"A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing. A time to search and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep and a time to throw away...."
Slogan/motto:
II Timothy 2:15, Psalms 6:5, I John 3:1-2, Romans 5:1 I John 4:18, I Timothy 2:4-5, II Corinthians 9:8,11, III John 2
Reputation:
April 26th, 2012, 05:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote
Honor = worship Revelation 5:13-14
Who do you think you're kidding when you say you honor the Son "even as" you honor the Father? Just recently Guildenstern denied that Christ is "THE Savior of us" as Paul said. Guild said that Christ only has a "role" in salvation. If you guys honored the Son as you honor the Father you would confess the Son as "THE Savior of you" (Titus 3:4-6).
You have a real sour attitude,
But I'll let that slide because you have soooo much to learn.
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Honor = worship Revelation 5:13-14
Yes, so what? Worship is to pay homage or prostrate oneself before a superior.
God is superior to me
Jesus Christ is superior to me.
There are a lot of men and women that are superior to me.
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Just recently Guildenstern denied that Christ is "THE Savior of us" as Paul said. Guild said that Christ only has a "role" in salvation.
So, that is his beliefs, he has that right to express his beliefs.
Should I compare your beliefs with those of Cain?
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If you guys honored the Son as you honor the Father you would confess the Son as "THE Savior of you"
God is my savior
Jesus Christ is my savior,
The person who taught me the words of God saved me also, from ignorance.
There have been many God sent saviors throughout history.
God is the source of salvation but not the sole agent of salvation.
If you don't calm down, you are going to get an ulcer.
oatmeal
"And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship and in breaking of bread and in prayers." Acts 2:42
"For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?" Psalm 6:5
God is the source of salvation but not the sole agent of salvation.
Isaiah 43:11
"A time to throw stones and a time to gather stones; A time to embrace and a time to shun embracing. A time to search and a time to give up as lost; A time to keep and a time to throw away...."
Who do you think you're kidding when you say you honor the Son "even as" you honor the Father? Just recently Guildenstern denied that Christ is "THE Savior of us" as Paul said. Guild said that Christ only has a "role" in salvation. If you guys honored the Son as you honor the Father you would confess the Son as "THE Savior of you" (Titus 3:4-6).
They only have themselves convinced, good posts Wile E.
The winner of the 2011 Truthsmacker of the Year Award
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