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For the THIRD time. Jesus does not have spirit. He IS spirit, 1 Corinthians 15:45.
Note that Paul calls Adam a "living being" in contrast to Christ who is a "life giving spirit."
Adam was a being that had spirit. But Jesus IS life giving spirit.
Premise 1: God is spirit
Premise 2: Jesus is [life giving] spirit
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God
Wile:
We all have our own spirit.
Some of us have God's spirit also.
Your argument is moot.
Jesus had to grow in wisdom, it was not put into him. That was his own spirit that every human has.
At age 30, he was anniointed and received the spirit of his father. Now he has two spirits in him.
Consider the man with many demons (Spirits) in him. We can have many spirits from many sources in us.
When Jesus was on the cross, God took HIS (God's) spirit back, this is when Jesus cried out, "Why have you forsaken me", a little while later, Jesus commanded that HIS (Jesus's) spirit to back to God. That is when he died. Think about that, it very well could be the way it is.
Jesus was flesh. He was flesh. The spirit was IN this flesh. So it does not prove that he is God.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Wile:
We all have our own spirit.
Some of us have God's spirit also.
Why are you having such a difficult time grasping things? Paul is talking about Christ as a spirit which imparts immortal life.
"The first Adam became a living being (having a human spirit). The last Adam became a life giving spirit."
You are suggesting that we all have life giving qualities in our spirit. Not so!
Quote:
Jesus had to grow in wisdom, it was not put into him. That was his own spirit that every human has.
At age 30, he was anniointed and received the spirit of his father. Now he has two spirits in him.
That was part of His fleshly composition and I have already demonstrated that His flesh was called His "tent" which means it was His temporary dwelling. Jesus has returned to being PURE spirit like He was before. Therefore, Jesus is God because God is spirit.
Quote:
When Jesus was on the cross, God took HIS (God's) spirit back, this is when Jesus cried out, "Why have you forsaken me", a little while later, Jesus commanded that HIS (Jesus's) spirit to back to God. That is when he died. Think about that, it very well could be the way it is.
No sir! Jesus yielded His human spirit to God. After He arose from the dead He returned to being PURE spirit as He was before.
Quote:
Jesus was flesh. He was flesh. The spirit was IN this flesh. So it does not prove that he is God.
It doesn't matter. The human spirit is "flesh" by reason of its union with flesh. Jesus no longer has a human spirit because He no longer has flesh. Jesus has returned to being PURE spirit like He was before.
Paul said that the first Adam was from the dust and became a "living being" (with a human spirit). He said that the second Adam is from heaven and is a "life giving spirit." He is PURE spirit again and is therefore divine.
Jesus has returned to being PURE spirit as He was before. Therefore Jesus is God because God is spirit.
For the THIRD time. Jesus does not have spirit. He IS spirit, 1 Corinthians 15:45.
Note that Paul calls Adam a "living being" in contrast to Christ who is a "life giving spirit."
Adam was a being that had spirit. But Jesus IS life giving spirit.
Premise 1: God is spirit
Premise 2: Jesus is [life giving] spirit
Conclusion: Therefore, Jesus is God
So Jesus is not a man?
If this is what you think your wrong. A man has a spirit. Every man has a spirit.
Including the Son of God.
We have flesh and we have spirit. Your trying to combine them.
I agree that before the world was created Jesus was spirit, but he became a man. A new creation.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
I have discoursed with many kinds of Unitarians over the course of several years and I have found the same thing in common among them here as I have found elsewhere. They cannot agree on who Jesus is. There are so many Unitarian views of Jesus that I call all Unitarianism the "Heinz 57" theology.
There is a reason for this. Unitarians deny that men should honor the Son "EVEN AS" they honor the Father. Therefore, they are left to their own individual and SUBJECTIVE views on how much the Son is to be honored. Their various views regarding the person of the Son determines the degree to which they honor Him. They are forced to match their view of Jesus with the degree they will honor Him. But the Father's mandate that the Son be honored "EVEN AS" Himself takes away all human subjectivity."
To the extent that men do not honor the Son is the extent to which they do not honor the Father.
"That all men should honour the Son, EVEN AS they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. John 5:23 KJV
Wow, I have had the same conversation with trinitarians!
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
So what does this inspired by God scripture teach???
Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."
Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."
Yet, Jesus teaches both before and after His death... HE (Jesus) has a God!
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.
Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Yep, Unitarians like trinitarians don't always agree to specifics... Yet they all agree there is only one God... And that is the God of Jesus!
Wow, spanked your theology again... That is unless you can explain how you can be God and then have a God! NOT!
Here's a icon that sums up your modern Trinitarian theology but non-Hebraic Unitarian beliefs ...
Yep, it is really that easy to expose you!
Explain how you can be GOD and then claim to have one!Knocked that ball right into your court! So, are you game or lame... willing to let your thread die with a un-answered post from it's creator?
The Gospel RoadRunner working... Wile E. Coyote
Paul
From the cowardice that shrinks from new truth,
From the laziness that is content with half-truths,
From the arrogance that thinks it knows all truth,
Oh God of Truth, deliver us.
~ Ancient Prayer
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
May 1st, 2012, 02:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierac
Wow, I have had the same conversation with trinitarians!
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness;
So what does this inspired by God scripture teach???
Isaiah 44:6 - "Thus says the LORD... there is no God but me."
Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."
Yet, Jesus teaches both before and after His death... HE (Jesus) has a God!
John 20:17 Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"
Rev 3:2 'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.
Rev 3:12 'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.
Yep, Unitarians like trinitarians don't always agree to specifics... Yet they all agree there is only one God... And that is the God of Jesus!
Wow, spanked your theology again... That is unless you can explain how you can be God and then have a God! NOT!
Here's a icon that sums up your modern Trinitarian theology but non-Hebraic Unitarian beliefs ...
Yep, it is really that easy to expose you!
Explain how you can be GOD and then claim to have one!Knocked that ball right into your court! So, are you game or lame... willing to let your thread die with a un-answered post from it's creator?
The Gospel RoadRunner working... Wile E. Coyote
Paul
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Ironically, it appears more scriptural passages and Jesus own words show he was essentially a Unitarian himself. Trinitarian concepts were more of a theological development later, further imposing a Christology assuming Jesus as being God almighty. A simple view consonant with Ebionism/Adoptionism still maintains Jesus uniqueness and role as Messiah, a man serving as a representative and Agent of God. It remains the burdern of trinitarians to prove that Jesus has to be anything more.
I agree that before the world was created Jesus was spirit, but he became a man. A new creation.
No, Keypurr. Jesus was not a "new creation."
In the beginning He was God, then a body was prepared for Him through Mary. God was manifest in the flesh. Not a burning bush this time, not a pillar of cloud or a pillar of fire, but human flesh.
Almighty God, knowing mankind was in need of a Redeemer, took on human form and died on the cross for us. It was Jehovah's flesh that was pierced. It was Jehovah (in the flesh) the ONLY Saviour. These are not idle words to be dismissed because you are unable to accept that Jesus is Almighty God and Eternal Father.
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Luke 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
John 19:37
And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
"The Father" hasn't said anything to me about it. And somehow, I feel pretty certain that he didn't make you His special spokesperson to all the rest of us. So if I or anyone else disagrees with you, or with your understanding of Jesus, I really don't think that constitutes a denial of God's will.
How does the Father speak to you? By the Spirit?
The Spirit of God or the Spirit of Christ?
Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
In the beginning He was God, then a body was prepared for Him through Mary. God was manifest in the flesh. Not a burning bush this time, not a pillar of cloud or a pillar of fire, but human flesh.
Genesis, lest US make man in OUR image..... TWO or more beings
Why are you putting limits on the creator?
Quote:
Almighty God, knowing mankind was in need of a Redeemer, took on human form and died on the cross for us. It was Jehovah's flesh that was pierced. It was Jehovah (in the flesh) the ONLY Saviour. These are not idle words to be dismissed because you are unable to accept that Jesus is Almighty God and Eternal Father.
This human is call a Form or Image of God in Hebrews and Colossians and Philippians.
Quote:
Isaiah 43:11
I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.
Jude 1:25
To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
Luke 2:11
For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, which is Christ the Lord.
John 4:42
And said unto the woman, Now we believe, not because of thy saying: for we have heard him ourselves, and know that this is indeed the Christ, the Saviour of the world.
Zechariah 12:10
And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
John 19:34
But one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
John 19:37
And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.
WHO SENT HIM? Jesus is a servant of the most high. Jesus has blood, God is spirit, not flesh and blood.
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
the truth -
May 5th, 2012, 06:53 PM
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