[sky.]

Originally Posted by Intellectual

There are consequences for sin, and sin can be repented of and the relationship or fellowship (is it one or the other or both I don't know or can't remember) is restored.

As for if animals and or plants died before Adam and Eve sinned, I know not. Can we say that the Bible does not speak of it?

There are penalties for sin in a believers life. First is loss of fellowship with God then chastisement, 1 Corinthians 11:32. Hebrews 12:4-11 the worst is physical death 1 Corinthians 5:5 11:28-32 if you don't respond to chastisement but you do not lose your salvation.

As for if animals and or plants died before Adam and Eve sinned, I know not. Can we say that the Bible does not speak of it?

Plants died because Adam and Eve ate them. Animals no. The first bloodshed was the skins of animals that God used to cover Adam and Eve.

[lifeisgood]

“Walk” in the Greek is “peripateo,” and means “to order one’s behavior, to conduct oneself.” It does not mean that I am not going to have a bad behavior, but that I have to order it.

Paul, speaking of the same thing in Philippians 2:12–13, says, “Carry to its ultimate conclusion your own Salvation, … for God is the One Who is constantly putting forth energy in you, giving you both the desire and the power to do His good pleasure.”

The Christian’s will has been made absolutely free. Before Salvation it was not free so far as choosing between good and evil was concerned. It was enslaved to the evil nature. But now, it stands poised between the evil nature and the Divine Nature, with the responsibility to reject the behests of the former and obey the exhortations of the latter. It is not so much as saying “No” to sin, but rather to saying “Yes” to Jesus, which becomes a habit, and then the victorious life has been reached.

Consequently, Paul has answered the question, “Shall we as a habit of life continue to sustain the same relationship to the evil nature that we sustained before Salvation?” By showing that this is a literal impossibility and for two reasons: A. The power of the sinful nature has been broken and, therefore, the Christian is not compelled to sin; and, B. The Divine Nature is imparted, and the Christian does not want to sin.

When a person does not have to do something which he does not want to do, he simply does not do it. (Swaggart, J. (1998). Jimmy Swaggart Bible Commentary: Romans (185). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press)

Originally Posted by Untellectual

But we know that He who is justified, experiences sanctification, and future glorification.

Justification — In Justification, the Lord fights ‘for’ us. I am justified before the Lord NOW. I will not be MORE justified when I am in His presence then, either at the Rapture or when I die, which ever comes first. This position of being justified NEVER changes because it has nothing to do with me. It is all about Him. He decided before the foundation of the world to justify me, he did justify me, He continues to justify me. He does everything because of what he did at the Cross.

I think that all of us have a problem with the Sanctification process — In Sanctification, He fights ‘in’ us.” This is a process. Only the Holy Spirit can work it in us.

The Sanctification process is a Work of the Holy Spirit and of Him Alone. This means that whatever needs to be done in our lives, the Holy Spirit Alone can carry out the process. And, to be sure, there is much that needs to be done. There is no way that all the efforts, schemes, or plans of man can effect this of which we speak (Rom. 8:11).

In other words, Christlikeness, Holiness, the Fruit of the Spirit, and other desirable characteristics in the Child of God can only be brought about by the Holy Spirit. God views anything else as a fake!

So the great question is, “How does the Holy Spirit carry out the Sanctification process?”

Here I will give a brief summary, but I encourage the Reader to obtain our Study Guide on this subject: THE CROSS OF CHRIST, THE HOLY SPIRIT WORKS.

We are told exactly how the Spirit of God works in a number of Passages, but the most telling is the following, and I continue to quote from THE EXPOSITOR’S STUDY BIBLE:

“For the Law (that which we are about to give is a Law of God, devised by the Godhead in eternity past [I Pet. 1:18-20]; this Law, in fact, is ‘God’s Prescribed Order of Victory’) of the Spirit (Holy Spirit, i.e., ‘The Way the Spirit works’) of Life (all life comes from Christ, but through the Holy Spirit [Jn. 16:13-14]) in Christ Jesus (any time Paul uses this term or one of its derivatives, he is, without fail, referring to what Christ did at the Cross, which makes this ‘life’ possible) has made me free (given me total Victory) from the Law of sin and death (these are the two most powerful Laws in the Universe; the ‘Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus’ alone is stronger than the ‘Law of sin and death’; this means that if the Believer attempts to live for God by any manner other than Faith in Christ and the Cross, he is doomed to failure)” (Rom. 8:2).

As stated, in this Passage we are told exactly how the Holy Spirit works. Totally and completely, He works within the parameters of the Finished Work of Christ, i.e., “the Cross.” In fact, He will not work outside of the Cross, not in any capacity.

The Holy Spirit will most definitely remain with the Believer even though the Believer might be functioning in a state of “spiritual adultery”; however, under such circumstances, He is greatly limited, as should be obvious. To be frank, the Holy Spirit doesn’t demand much of us, but He does demand that our faith be exclusively in Christ and the Cross, and that means that nothing else must be added. If anything else is added, it cancels out the Cross and becomes “spiritual adultery.”

Once again, coming into play are the marriage vows which Paul used in the first four verses of the Seventh Chapter of Romans. If the woman is unfaithful to her husband, “she shall be called an adulteress.” Paul then tells us plainly that we are married to Christ. As such, He is to supply our every need, whatever it might be, which He does solely by and through the Cross. As we’ve previously stated, this demands that the Cross must ever be the Object of our Faith.

If our faith is correct, the Holy Spirit, Who Alone can bring to pass in our lives that which is needed, will work mightily on our behalf. He will then begin to develop His Fruit, to develop Righteousness and Holiness, and to make us what we ought to be. (Swaggart, J. (2005). The Cross of Christ Study Guide Series: Spiritual Adultery (29–30). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.)

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Then what of sin, do we say we have moved beyond it?

No, we never moved beyond sin. There will be times when we will sin. Because remember, like I said before, the ‘sin nature’ is inactive but it is still in us. It is not dead. We come back to Christ and what He did in the Cross EVERY DAY so that the Holy Spirit can work in my life to sanctify me. I cannot sanctify myself (I cannot stop sinning by myself. The Holy Spirit has to do it inside of me and then it will show in the outside [ordering my behavior]). We MUST be always saying ‘yes’ to Christ and eventually we will stop being ‘dominated’ by sin nature. THIS IS A PROCESS.

Salvation is a one time thing.

Sanctification is a process. A lifelong process and ONLY the Holy Spirit can do it.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

There are consequences for sin, and sin can be repented of and the relationship or fellowship (is it one or the other or both I don't know or can't remember) is restored.

The sin is forgiven [1 John 1:9], but I will suffer the consequences. Remember David. God forgave him for what he did, but the consequence, the death of his first son was not taken away. We live in a sinful world.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

As for if animals and or plants died before Adam and Eve sinned, I know not. Can we say that the Bible does not speak of it?

Yes, I would say that the Bible does not say that animals and/or plants died before Adam and Eve sinned. At least I have not found anything in the Bible that says that death was here before Adam and Eve sinned, but because Adam sinned, then death came.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by sky.

1 Corinthians 5:5

I'm not sure yet if this is a believer or someone who will become convicted of their sin and repent unto salvation before they die.

Plants died because Adam and Eve ate them.

I know they ate the fruit of plants. I'm not sure if they ate plants (taking the life away). I know I know... it's just a plant.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I need help with this.

And...

Romans 6:14 For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace.

We say YES TO CHRIST not no to sin.

I can say no to something that I know is wrong all day long, all week long, all month long, all year long, but I will still do that which I know is wrong, however, if I keep coming back to Christ and what He did every day, then and only then will the Holy Spirit, not I, help me so that I, eventually, will not be 'dominated' by that sin.

If I keep trying to do it myself, I AM DOOMED to failure. Because if I could stop sinning by myself, then Christ died in vain.

[sky.]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I'm not sure yet if this is a believer or someone who will become convicted of their sin and repent unto salvation before they die.I know they ate the fruit of plants. I'm not sure if they ate plants (taking the life away). I know I know... it's just a plant.

Genesis 2:16

That's a good point I guess but really if they ate the "fruit" of plants then they ate the seeds so they ate the baby plants.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Angel4Truth

Exactly, what is it that you need help with?

We no longer sin as believers, since we are not under the law but covered by the grace of Christ, His life was exchanged for ours, He is without sin.

The law declared us guilty, and Christ set us free.

1 John 1:10

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

My understanding is that this was written to believers:

1 John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous;

1 John 2:2 and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

You are correct.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

but because Adam sinned, then death came.

My original question was what sin reigned in death means, because it seems that death is the consequence of sin. It must be that the consequence has it's effect for more sin. I'm wondering how sin is reigning or reigned (namely, reigns?) in death.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by sky.

There are penalties for sin in a believers life. First is loss of fellowship with God then chastisement, 1 Corinthians 11:32. Hebrews 12:4-11 the worst is physical death 1 Corinthians 5:5 11:28-32 if you don't respond to chastisement but you do not lose your salvation.



Plants died because Adam and Eve ate them. Animals no. The first bloodshed was the skins of animals that God used to cover Adam and Eve.

Agree with point 1.

Did not think about 'plants died because Adam and Eve ate them', it is true.

Agree with 'the first bloodshed was the skins of animals' killed to cover Adam and Eve.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

1 John 1:10

If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Is this for the unbeliever, the one who would say they have not sinned?

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Agree with point 1.

Did not think about 'plants died because Adam and Eve ate them', it is true.

Agree with 'the first bloodshed was the skins of animals' killed to cover Adam and Eve.

I follow.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

You are correct.

There are other verses as well, and these can be provided should there be a need.

However, in considering these verses you deem me correct. I wonder if I may ask a question.

Is it possible that these verses are speaking of the believer's converted experience in that conversion? That is, what they have been through, even in the mind and processing what has happened to them?

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I'm not sure yet if this is a believer or someone who will become convicted of their sin and repent unto salvation before they die.

1 Cor. 5:5 To deliver such an one (the one committing the sin of incest) unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh (it refers to ceasing all prayer for such an individual, and can be done by the local Body, providing the Church is correct in its position; God will no more honor wrong committed by the Church than He will by an individual), that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus (it is hoped that such action will cause the person to repent).

Swaggart, J. (2005). The Expositor's Study Bible (2008–2009). Baton Rouge, LA: World Evangelism Press.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

We say YES TO CHRIST not no to sin.

We should say yes to Christ and no to sin. Maybe this is going back to love God hate sin.

I can say no to something that I know is wrong all day long, all week long, all month long, all year long, but I will still do that which I know is wrong, however, if I keep coming back to Christ and what He did every day, then and only then will the Holy Spirit, not I, help me so that I, eventually, will not be 'dominated' by that sin.

If I keep trying to do it myself, I AM DOOMED to failure. Because if I could stop sinning by myself, then Christ died in vain.

Fixing our eyes on Jesus the author and perfector of our faith...

But is the verse about the victorious Christian life?