[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I'm talking about what you presented as the three baptisms you have thought of did not in any verse refer to baptism.

I give up Untellectual!

I have given you all I have. Can't do no more. Have no more to give you. Will not start over. You can always go back and start from your first question and see my answers from there. It would be pointless for me to continue in this vein because I would repeat exactly what I told you previously.

Sorry that I was unable to answer your question. Maybe someone else will be better equipped to answer your question.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

I give up Untellectual!

I have given you all I have. Can't do no more. Have no more to give you. Will not start over. You can always go back and start from your first question and see my answers from there. It would be pointless for me to continue in this vain because I would repeat exactly what I told you previously.

Sorry that I was unable to answer your question. Maybe someone else will be better equipped to answer your question.

I am sorry I am not prepared to teach you. I am simply comparing what I know from scripture with what you are saying, and there seems to be a difference.

[lifeisgood]

Untellectual, promise last thought for tonight. Too tired, going to bed.

Please, take the time and read ALL those verses, not just some, but take the time to read ALL, making notes as you go along. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you to understand what HE wants for you. Ask Him and He will answer you. I promise you He will give you the answer you are seeking.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

Untellectual, promise last thought for tonight. Too tired, going to bed.

Please, take the time and read ALL those verses, not just some, but take the time to read ALL, making notes as you go along. Ask the Holy Spirit to help you to understand what HE wants for you. Ask Him and He will answer you. I promise you He will give you the answer you are seeking.

I may be able to get to it this upcoming weekend.

[lifeisgood]

The Lord woke me up very early this morning with "Simon, the sorcerer." I had forgotten this story in the Bible. Please go read it in Acts 8:9-24. What did he observe? Why did he wanted it? Why did Peter chastise him?

If the Lord cannot make you see the third point I was making, I certainly cannot. Sorry I couldn't remember it yesterday.

And by the way, all those verses that I gave you must be read in context. It is not enough to read just one verse, that one verse must be read in context. The verses before and the verses after; otherwise we miss a lot from the narrative.

Blessings.

[OMEGA]

Lu 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me,

let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

The Lord woke me up very early this morning with "Simon, the sorcerer." I had forgotten this story in the Bible. Please go read it in Acts 8:9-24. What did he observe? Why did he wanted it? Why did Peter chastised him?

If the Lord cannot make you see the third point I was making, I certainly cannot. Sorry I couldn't remember it yesterday.

And by the way, all those verses that I gave you must be read in context. It is not enough to read just one verse, that one verse must be read in context. The verses before and the verses after; otherwise we miss a lot from the narrative.

Blessings.

You said you have to ask for it.

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

You said you have to ask for it.

The Lord wakes me up early in the morning to tell me to give you something from Him and you are paying attention to me? "But, lifeisgood, you said......"

No, go thank Him that He put someone in your path that is telling you something you don't know and that you want Him to make you understand. I cannot.

How do you know that they did not ask for the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit? You don't and the implication is that they had to have asked; otherwise, they would not have received it. Come on, let's not get hung up with stuff. Don't be looking for a formula. It does not exist. Want to find out if it is true? Yes? Then go ask Him.

You, Untellectual, do you want to receive the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit? Yes?

Then, you, Untellectual, ask the one that has the baptism to give you. He and only He can baptize you 'with' His Baptism. That simple.

Have you ever had the evidence that you have been baptized 'with' the baptism of the Holy Spirit, like Acts 8:9-24? No? Then you have never been baptized 'with' His Holy Spirit. Do you want to experience it? Then go ask Him.

Tell Him you want to have His fullness. His all. You want a fuller relationship with Him. You want to be used more fully by Him. DO NOT ASK FOR TONGUES, GO AFTER THE SPIRIT.

And if you ask him honestly, truthfully, humbly and with expectation, He will tell you so. That simple.

I do not mean to be mean to you, but this is going to be the same answer you will receive from me, no matter how many times, you say, "But you said." Go ask Him.

[lifeisgood]

What is the theme of Acts 19:3-5?

He found some Disciples and Paul asking them, "Have you received the Holy Spirit since you believed?" "We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Spirit."

What? They have never been baptized in the family of God? Obviously, that is not the theme at all.

You can read from the context of the verses that Paul was talking about the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit. Paul was not asking them, "Did you accept the Lord Jesus Christ?" No, Paul was talking to them, implied from the context, that he, Paul, was talking about the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit and the evidence for that baptism is speaking in tongues.

Paul explained to them what he was talking about and they believed what Paul was saying to them and they said they wanted it; otherwise, they would not have received whatever it was that Paul was talking to them about. That's the way I see it.

Do I need to have a phrase written in there that says, "And they asked for whatever Paul was talking about?" I don't.

[Untellectual]

Originally Posted by lifeisgood

The Lord wakes me up early in the morning to tell me to give you something from Him and you are paying attention to me? "But, lifeisgood, you said......"

No, go thank Him that He put someone in your path that is telling you something you don't know and that you want Him to make you understand. I cannot.

How do you know that they did not ask for the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit? You don't and the implication is that they had to have asked; otherwise, they would not have received it. Come on, let's not get hung up with stuff. Don't be looking for a formula. It does not exist. Want to find out if it is true? Yes? Then go ask Him.

You, Untellectual, do you want to receive the baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit? Yes?

Then, you, Untellectual, ask the one that has the baptism to give you. He and only He can baptize you 'with' His Baptism. That simple.

Have you ever had the evidence that you have been baptized 'with' the baptism of the Holy Spirit, like Acts 8:9-24? No? Then you have never been baptized 'with' His Holy Spirit. Do you want to experience it? Then go ask Him.

Tell Him you want to have His fullness. His all. You want a fuller relationship with Him. You want to be used more fully by Him. DO NOT ASK FOR TONGUES, GO AFTER THE SPIRIT.

And if you ask him honestly, truthfully, humbly and with expectation, He will tell you so. That simple.

I do not mean to be mean to you, but this is going to be the same answer you will receive from me, no matter how many times, you say, "But you said." Go ask Him.

I believe I have already been baptized by the Holy Spirit. You believe I have not.

My guess is that you believe this because I said I have not spoke in tongues.

Did you have a Bible verse for "you have to ask for it"?

I don't know that you are giving correct doctrine/teaching. Of what is relevant, all I know is scripture and Jesus Christ (crucified).

[Livelystone]

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is in an event that is given evidence through some gift from the Holy Spirit. That gift may or may not be speaking in tongues.

Being baptized with water is the baptism of John that Jesus did to “fulfill all righteousness”. John's baptism was for repentance and remission of sins. Therefore it testifies to event that is already taken place before the water baptism happens, but it is also an ongoing process as we continue to be washed in the water of the word.

It would take longer than what I would care to post here about the whole history of why the apostles did a water baptism that is also tied in with the basin in the courtyard before one enters into the holy room of the tabernacle in the wilderness. This is where the priest washed their hands and their feet (works and walk) before entering the tabernacle, and why Paul spoke of being washed with the water of the word.

Although someone may be baptized with the Holy Spirit before they have their water baptism (I was), what the water baptism represents (a.k.a. a repentance from sin) takes place before they are baptized with the Holy Spirit.

One is not part of the body of Christ that is "becoming part of the Temple as well as an indivudal temple" until they been baptized with the Holy Spirit. For that reason in the book of Revelation when the angel was told to measure the temple but leave out the outer court, is because the outer court is where the representation for water baptism is. This is because as I just said, until someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit that allows them into the holy room in the tabernacle, they are not part of the body of Christ Also the fullness of Christ cannot be formed in anyone until they are first baptized into the body.

Blessings

Doug

[lifeisgood]

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I believe I have already been baptized by the Holy Spirit. You believe I have not.

Could you show me where I said to you, "you are not baptized by the Holy Spirit?" You will not find one answer where I said that. On the contrary, I told you YOU ARE NOW baptized by the Holy Spirit 'in' the family of God.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

My guess is that you believe this because I said I have not spoke in tongues.

You asked me at one point in our conversation about baptism. And I explained to you what I understood the Bible to say:

1) Baptism 'in' the family of God when you accept Jesus Christ and what He did for you on the Cross.
2) Baptism 'in' water AFTER you have been baptized 'in' the family of God by the Holy Spirit.
3) Baptism 'with' the Holy Spirit which comes BEFORE or AFTER you have been baptized 'in' water and definitely AFTER you have been baptized 'in' the family of God. If you want to ask for it. It is still available for anyone who asks.

Anybody that would be interested would find that is exactly what I said.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Did you have a Bible verse for "you have to ask for it"?

Yes. I already did give you more than one verse that explains all of that. And I also explained to you that NOT ALL SPEAK IN TONGUES. And I said if I would need to have a phrase written such as 'did they ask to receive what Paul was talking about?' My response? I don't.

Originally Posted by Untellectual

I don't know that you are giving correct doctrine/teaching.

And that from someone who said:

Originally Posted by Untellectual

"I believe "the Local Church" to be a cult. It is a denomination in the United States and not China I believe."

Originally Posted by Untellectual

Of what is relevant, all I know is scripture and Jesus Christ (crucified).

I agree with you.



The only reason I answered your post is because I do not want someone else new coming into this forum and per chance yours is the first particular response they find and would even think that I would have been giving you false doctrine.

[lifeisgood]

Untellectual, I might have to keep looking to find the answer, that I know to be true, but I have never yet taught false doctrine.

Lk. 11:9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

Lk 11:10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

Lk 11:11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

Lk 11:12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

Lk 11:13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: HOW MUCH MORE SHALL YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER GIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT TO THEM THAT ASK HIM?

[lifeisgood]

It just dawned on me that speaking in tongues is a gift. I never thought of it that way. Don't know why I never thought of it as a gift. I just accepted it when it came to me.

So, thank you Untellectual for not letting me let go of looking more about it. No sarcasm. I am truthfully grateful that you challenged me on this one.

However, one thing I have always known, it was bought with such an awful price, the death of God the Son on the Cross of Calvary for ones who definitively did not / do not deserve it, that if the one that DOES NOT deserve it wants this precious gift, he/she HAS to ask for the gift of the Holy Spirit to be given to him/her. Because I am assuming the gift being of such value cannot be just given to everybody, the price was too high, so if it is desired, it has to be asked for within the community of Christians.

Again, thank you, Untellectual. And again, not one drop of sarcasm here. And I am sorry if if sounded anything but trying to help you understand what I understand about this awesome gift, even if not totally and completely. Even now, I know, I do not know all that I need to know about this gift of the Holy Spirit, the speaking in tongues being one of them, there are nine gifts.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11 gives nine gracious, supernatural gifts of the Holy Spirit. We can divide them into three groups as follows:

Manifestations of wisdom and knowledge through the Holy Spirit:

1. The gift of wisdom, verse 8
2. The gift of knowledge, verse 8
3. The gift of discernment, verse 10

Manifestations of the power of the Holy Spirit:

4. The gift of faith, verse 9
5. The gift of healing, verse 9
6. The gift of working of miracles, 9

Special inspirational utterances through the Holy Spirit:

7. The gift of prophecy, verse 10
8. The gift of tongues, verse 10
9. The gift of the interpretation of tongues, verse 10

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Being baptized with the Holy Spirit is in an event that is given evidence through some gift from the Holy Spirit. That gift may or may not be speaking in tongues.

Being baptized with water is the baptism of John that Jesus did to “fulfill all righteousness”. John's baptism was for repentance and remission of sins. Therefore it testifies to event that is already taken place before the water baptism happens, but it is also an ongoing process as we continue to be washed in the water of the word.

It would take longer than what I would care to post here about the whole history of why the apostles did a water baptism that is also tied in with the basin in the courtyard before one enters into the holy room of the tabernacle in the wilderness. This is where the priest washed their hands and their feet (works and walk) before entering the tabernacle, and why Paul spoke of being washed with the water of the word.

Although someone may be baptized with the Holy Spirit before they have their water baptism (I was), what the water baptism represents (a.k.a. a repentance from sin) takes place before they are baptized with the Holy Spirit.

One is not part of the body of Christ that is "becoming part of the Temple as well as an indivudal temple" until they been baptized with the Holy Spirit. For that reason in the book of Revelation when the angel was told to measure the temple but leave out the outer court, is because the outer court is where the representation for water baptism is. This is because as I just said, until someone is baptized in the Holy Spirit that allows them into the holy room in the tabernacle, they are not part of the body of Christ Also the fullness of Christ cannot be formed in anyone until they are first baptized into the body.

Blessings

Doug

Good post