ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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May 1st, 2012, 02:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
I am absolutely making sense if you knew the bible and had the Holy Spirit.
Sure...because only those who happen to agree with HS's personal preferences and opinions "know the Bible and have the Holy Spirit."
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 1st, 2012, 02:33 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
I believe the Bible...
He believes his preferred interpretations of the Bible, he means...
Quote:
Oh.. that's right, you are not allowed to... silly me.
Just as you're not allowed---by your non-Catholic sectarian doctrinal tradition---to accept the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church. Silly you, indeed.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
He believes his preferred interpretations of the Bible, he means...
[font="Georgia"]Just as you're not allowed---by your non-Catholic sectarian doctrinal tradition---to accept the authoritative teachings of Christ's historic Church. Silly you, indeed.
You still haven't said which child rapist Jesus would cover for by the laws of his church.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 2nd, 2012, 02:52 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuu
You still haven't said which child rapist Jesus would cover for by the laws of his church.
That's because your question is internally corrupt, and therefore simply nonsense. The bare fact that someone may have misused Canon Law does not justify the non sequitur that this somehow disqualifies the Catholic Church as Christ's historic Church. Therefore, you can go ahead and drop this transparently fallacious pseudo-argument now. Moving on...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
[font="Georgia"]That's because your question is internally corrupt, and therefore simply nonsense. The bare fact that someone may have misused Canon Law does not justify the non sequitur that this somehow disqualifies the Catholic Church as Christ's historic Church. Therefore, you can go ahead and drop this transparently fallacious pseudo-argument now. Moving on...
That didn't really answer the quesion about which child rapist Jesus would have sent on his way to new victims in a new country. Your church believes in doing as Jesus did, right?
Would Jesus have called it this papal corruptness a crisis or an abomination, do you think?
I think he would have laughed and asked god to forgive Ratzinger for he knows not what he does. Then, regardless of that, he would organise for him to be assigned not just to a final destruction by fire, but a place in the lake of fire forever.
Well actually I don't believe that either, and in some ways it is a shame there is no such place for you and your fascist German friend. But you have no moral authority to comment either way, because while you call it a "crisis for the church" most ethical people call child rape one of the worst crimes you could commit, and systematically covering it up using a canon law expressly written for that purpose they would call conspiracy to commit child rape.
So, conspirator in child rape, what is the moral argument that anyone should give you the time of day?
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 3rd, 2012, 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuu
That didn't really answer the quesion about which child rapist Jesus would have sent on his way to new victims in a new country.
I think it's clear that Jesus would not have misused Canon Law. However, the conclusion you're trying to force from this is a non sequitur, since none of us is Jesus. Sorry for your confusion.
The rest of your post merely displays the fact that your deep-seated anti-Catholic bigotry and militant hatred has simply unhinged you; you're pathologically unable to be rational or even meaningful with respect to the Catholic Church. May God help you.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
[font="Georgia"]I think it's clear that Jesus would not have misused Canon Law.
So you think he would have used it for its intended purpose too?
If you bothered to read it, you would know that canon law and the associated witterings of popes covers sexual attention from priests before, during and after the act of confession, so in other words at any time, and it specifically puts the question of whether an offence has occurred in the eyes of the church (not considering the criminal justice system at all), assigning to a bishop (and in serious cases the vatican) the decision about whether it should be considered sexual abuse AT ALL.
That is not what is expected by law-abiding people in democratic countries. It is expected that the bishop would pick up the phone to the police STRAIGHT AWAY, regardless of his own feelings about dwindling priest numbers and the psychological effect of elitism amongst priests which is thought to have led to a culture of abuse of the vulnerable.
Are you aware that the agreed statement on reporting abuse has been accepted in the American context only, and that canon law has not changed? The same old internal legal system of covering up child rape still exists in Europe.
The fascists in the vatican, who demonstrate their hatred of democracy almost daily in their unending demands for exemptions from human rights requirements and laws against employment discrimination, have discovered that perhaps their most loyal dominion, the Republic of Ireland, doesn't like having its democracy run over roughshod. The RCC is the best advertisement for the thing it opposes: secular democracy.
Quote:
However, the conclusion you're trying to force from this is a non sequitur, since none of us is Jesus. Sorry for your confusion.
I have no reason to suspect Jesus of child abuse, or any of his contemporary followers, if indeed any of them actually existed historically. After all, there is no reliable record of him covering up child abuse (or doing anything else for that matter), and indeed there is no record of Simon Peter moving child rapists on to new victims. But your own logical error seems to be some wierd sequence along the lines of arguing that because there is no record of these early christians covering up child rape therefore it would be an abuse of canon law to use it for that purpose. That means the pope is an abuser of canon law because the evidence is clear that he did exactly that when head of the Inquisition, and according to you your church does not have a constitution that reflects what Jesus would have done: what else is that particular canon law for? Rape of adults by priests? That gets covered up too.
Quote:
The rest of your post merely displays the fact that your deep-seated anti-Catholic bigotry and militant hatred has simply unhinged you; you're pathologically unable to be rational or even meaningful with respect to the Catholic Church. May God help you.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 5th, 2012, 12:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuu
If you bothered to read it, you would know that...
Stuu is now going to explain Canon Law to everyone. That is precious.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Stuu is now going to explain Canon Law to everyone. That is precious
I've quoted the relevant canon law to you in the past, and you have given your own interpretation of it in terms of asserting that using it to cover up child rape is abuse of canon law, and you have also claimed that you need a canon lawyer to interpret canon law.
From the point of view of a non-Catholic, canon law is just the internal constitution of that organisation. There is no international law that requires particular forms of internal legislation for a private organisation, and the real law specifies what is required by the real authorities (the ones that have the support of the population to do things to you that you don't want). It is only a matter of opinion whether anyone could be capable of reading and understanding what canon law says, just as it is a matter of opinion what
Dickens meant to communicate, or Marx.
When it comes to an organisation using its own internal laws in ways that are illegal according to real law, ultimately who cares what members of that organisation claim about how the laws should be applied or even what they mean? in the case of the Catholic church, it is of passing amusement value to consider how Catholics reconcile canon law with the
mythology of Jesus, but if you are going to make this a case that I should only be allowed your interpretation then I'll remind you of your previous statement about canon lawyers. It would appear that I am free to interpret canon law but you are not!
I have tried to be straight with you, and not make strawmen positions regarding what canon law claims, but I am quite happy to withdraw from that and go back to calling it what it is in terms of real sovereign law: a charter for child-raping priests. That's what has really upset the Irish, to take one prominent current example.
Why should we not bust this child rape ring and confiscate its assets? Its constitution says child rape should be covered up, and that is illegal under democratically mandated laws in most countries where Catholics live. The whole "sinners" thing is a sick joke.
Slogan/motto:
sir.cher=Searcher!!!
I should say excuse me because My English language is poor.
So that i can not understand some text of this forum and i can not write some of things that i think.
Reputation:
May 6th, 2012, 10:16 AM
I think Protestant sect is better than Catholic sect.
Evidence that:
1) There are some superstition in the Catholic religion.
2) priests who abuse their authority in the church.
3) Protestant sect is nearest way to act and think of Jesus.
I think Protestant sect is better than Catholic sect.
Evidence that:
1) There are some superstition in the Catholic religion.
2) priests who abuse their authority in the church.
3) Protestant sect is nearest way to act and think of Jesus.
Welcome friend to TOL.
It is good that your seeking truth about God. You seem to have read a lot about the Christian churches. It is my opinion that most churches do not teach who God or his son really are. The history of the churches is full of violence. They prosecuted all who opposed her. Most Protestant churches are really branches of the RCC. Some of the doctrines of the RCC were held by the separate churches. They all have their share of good and evil.
I believe the truth can only be found in God's written words. After fifty years in a church, I went out of her to the truths that are written. I think that the Protestant churches did not get far enough away from the Catholic teachings, so I left them.
I have a God. The same God that Jesus has. He is the only God. I also accept his son Jesus as my Lord, for he gave his life that I may live. Every one must relay on their own understand to build their faith.
Again welcome
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Slogan/motto:
Hbr 10:31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
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May 6th, 2012, 01:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire
Not everyone involved with Bruno's trial thought he should be executed. It was ultimately the decision of the civil authorities to kill him (this is how it actually was with pretty much everyone who was "burnt at the stake by the church.")
I think it's more important that you review the literature yourself and make your own decisions about these questions than rely on the mostly uninformed/misinformed views of others to decide for you.
That would be the civil govs. that the RCC controlled and did what the pope told them to do.
The RCC where Jesus and His words have been marginalized , His teachings replaced with Traditions of men, His gospel changed, His rightful worship given to a goddess , and His ministry of the Holy Spirit supplanted by a sinful man called pope.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 6th, 2012, 06:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sir.cher
Evidence that:
1) There are some superstition in the Catholic religion.
Name something in Catholic doctrine or practice that you consider a "superstition."
Quote:
2) priests who abuse their authority in the church.
Protestants abuse their authority in their "churches," and on a scale greater than that in the Catholic Church.
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3) Protestant sect is nearest way to act and think of Jesus.
Protestant sects didn't even exist until a scant five centuries ago! Also, if Protestantism is "the nearest way to act and think of Jesus," why are there some 38,000+ competing and contradictory man-made Protestant denominations and sects in existence today, with more being invented every week?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
May 1st, 2012, 02:29 PM
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