ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
But for now, I would like to deal with one issue, at the end of the post:
Personally, I think you have read to much into these verses: John 18:4-8
Let me give you an example:
Some strangers comes to Gill White, and one of them said:
''are you Gill White''
Gill White replied ''I am''
John 18:4-5 KJV
(4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
(5) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
When Jesus said: Whom seek ye? They replied: ''Jesus of Nazareth'' Jesus replied: ''I am''
How can you come to conclusion, from this dialog, that Jesus said He was God.
Read it again?
Whether the ''he'' is there or not, this makes no difference, they were looking for ''Jesus of Nazareth'' and you seem to forget that:
''WHO'' were they looking for: ''Jesus of Nazareth'' and Jesus actually confirmed that he was ''Jesus of Nazareth'' by saying ''I am''
But for now, I would like to deal with one issue, at the end of the post:
Personally, I think you have read to much into these verses: John 18:4-8
Let me give you an example:
Some strangers comes to Gill White, and one of them said:
''are you Gill White''
Gill White replied ''I am''
John 18:4-5 KJV
(4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
(5) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
When Jesus said: Whom seek ye? They replied: ''Jesus of Nazareth'' Jesus replied: ''I am''
How can you come to conclusion, from this dialog, that Jesus said He was God.
Read it again?
Whether the ''he'' is there or not, this makes no difference, they were looking for ''Jesus of Nazareth'' and you seem to forget that:
''WHO'' were they looking for: ''Jesus of Nazareth'' and Jesus actually confirmed that he was ''Jesus of Nazareth'' by saying ''I am''
God bless
Jesus' claiming to be God (the great I AM) is a recurring problem for Him with the Jews. This is why they wanted Him crucified. However, that will take some time and I absolutely must be off to bed.
I'm enjoying our discussion, Gill....hope to see you soon.
Slogan/motto:
I have no political views of this world, and lean towards none that are listed. 2Co 5:17 (GW) Gal 6:15 (GW)
Reputation:
May 7th, 2012, 07:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
Jesus' claiming to be God (the great I AM) is a recurring problem for Him with the Jews. This is why they wanted Him crucified. However, that will take some time and I absolutely must be off to bed.
So Jesus said He was the Son of God, and the Jews thought this meant: ''Jesus was God'' So, the Jews in their mind, said lets kill GOD!
Has it ever been recorded somewhere, that the Jews, thought they ''could'' kill God.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
I'm enjoying our discussion, Gill....hope to see you soon.
2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
When I see trinitarians put up Scripture, I see a lot of far crying. Connecting Deuteronomy with Luke and Matthew simply just isn't a sound argument with contextual events.
Satan asked Jesus to worship him, and only a frankly idiotic excuse can keep the notion afloat that any of Satan's temptations actually promoted the idea that Jesus was God.
So Jesus said He was the Son of God, and the Jews thought this meant: ''Jesus was God'' So, the Jews in their mind, said lets kill GOD!
Has it ever been recorded somewhere, that the Jews, thought they ''could'' kill God.
The Jews weren't trying to kill God. They thought Jesus was committing blasphemy by claiming to be God (the great I AM).
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
The Jews weren't trying to kill God. They thought Jesus was committing blasphemy by claiming to be God (the great I AM).
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
It's kind of bad, I think, that trinitarians take that so literally. How does one with any literary sense not see the conviction in the verse?
The Pharisees were fault-finders.
Even with the great 'I am', one has to refer all the way to Exodus when God said "I AM that I AM". That is a textbook far cry, as I mentioned in my last post.
I'll tell you why. These Jews knew God was the great I AM, and when Jesus answered them, He used the same phrase ego eimi (I am) as was used in Deut. 32:39 Is. 41:4 Is. 43:10 Is. 45:18 Is. 46:4. That name (Yahweh) was so sacred that the Jews refused to pronounce it. They knew full well Jesus was claiming to be God, Himself and were shocked ...falling backwards and to the ground.
John 18:4-6 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am (he.) And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am (he), they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am (he):
It's the same here...
John 8:23-25 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he,) ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. John 1:1
Slogan/motto:
I have no political views of this world, and lean towards none that are listed. 2Co 5:17 (GW) Gal 6:15 (GW)
Reputation:
May 8th, 2012, 12:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
I'll tell you why. These Jews knew God was the great I AM, and when Jesus answered them, He used the same phrase ego eimi (I am) as was used in Deut. 32:39 Is. 41:4 Is. 43:10 Is. 45:18 Is. 46:4. That name (Yahweh) was so sacred that the Jews refused to pronounce it. They knew full well Jesus was claiming to be God, Himself and were shocked ...falling backwards and to the ground.
John 18:4-6 Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye? They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am (he.) And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them. As soon then as he had said unto them, I am (he), they went backward, and fell to the ground. Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus answered, I have told you that I am (he):
But you are still forgetting the question, whom they were looking for?
Jesus also asked them: Whom seek ye? Their reply was ''Jesus of Nazareth'' Jesus replied ''I am''
John 18:4-5 KJV
(4) Jesus therefore, knowing all things that should come upon him, went forth, and said unto them, Whom seek ye?
(5) They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.
When Jesus said: Whom seek ye? They replied: ''Jesus of Nazareth'' Jesus replied: ''I am''
''I am Jesus of Nazareth''
They were looking for Jesus of Nazareth and Jesus said twice: Whom seek ye: they said, Jesus of Nazareth: Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he:
John 18:7-8 KJV
(7) Then asked he them again, Whom seek ye? And they said, Jesus of Nazareth.
(8) Jesus answered, I have told you that I am he: if therefore ye seek me, let these go their way:
John 20:31 KJV
(31) But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
Slogan/motto:
I have no political views of this world, and lean towards none that are listed. 2Co 5:17 (GW) Gal 6:15 (GW)
Reputation:
May 8th, 2012, 01:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
It's the same here...
John 8:23-25 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he,) ye shall die in your sins. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning. John 1:1
Are we of this world glorydaz?
John 17:14-16 KJV
(14) I have given them thy word (logos); and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
(16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17, is a wonderful chapter: It gives us many answers:
2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
Slogan/motto:
I have no political views of this world, and lean towards none that are listed. 2Co 5:17 (GW) Gal 6:15 (GW)
Reputation:
May 8th, 2012, 02:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
The Jews weren't trying to kill God. They thought Jesus was committing blasphemy by claiming to be God (the great I AM).
No one can kill God: God cannot die:
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
John 10:30 I and my Father are one.
Your answer for this is in John 17:
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
John 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
John 10:34-38 KJV
(34) Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
(35) If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
(36) Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
(37) If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
(38) But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.
John 10:36 ERV
(36) So why do you accuse me of insulting God for saying, 'I am God's Son'? I am the one God chose and sent into the world.
Jesus said: ''why do you accuse me of insulting God for saying, I am God's Son'? I am the one God chose and sent into the world.
Things haven't changed, even today people still get accused, for saying Jesus is God's Son.
Jesus is God's Son, Jesus is the one, God chose and sent into the world:
2Co 5:17 Whoever is a believer in Christ is a new creation. The old way of living has disappeared. A new way of living has come into existence.
John 17:14-16 KJV
(14) I have given them thy word (logos); and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
(15) I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
(16) They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
John 17, is a wonderful chapter: It gives us many answers:
*
You are of this world for "He was in the world and the world was made by Him but the world knew Him not"
"Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood." Acts 20:28 ESV
"Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood." Acts 20:28 ESV
Are you saying God has blood?
I though he was spirit.
Peace
Psalm 1[/color] and Job 28:28
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Joh 4:23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers.
Lighthouse, folks think because you call them names that God is not in you. Its OK to disagree with folks ut that does not make them morans.
This post seems to prove them wrong. I think this is the first time I have seen the real you, and I like it. We all have had some kind of experience find God, right here on TOL he is showing himself.
Peace LH
I don't call people "morons" and "idiots" because I disagree with them, or vice versa. I do it if they are being idiots and morons.
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