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Reload this Page Catholicism - The Religion Of "Lord, Lord, Didn't We..."
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Cruciform Cruciform is offline
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Post May 5th, 2012, 01:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
When God sees us "In Christ" God declares that we are justified.
Post #6.



Gaudium de veritate,

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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Cruciform View Post
Post #6.



Gaudium de veritate,

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Post #6 was clearly and plainly refuted by post #9.
   
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Post May 5th, 2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Post #6 was clearly and plainly refuted by post #9.
Sorry, but posting your personal theological preferences and opinions hardly constitutes a "refutation," much less a "clear" and "plain" one. In any case, your opinions were decisively answered in Post #12. End of thread.



Gaudium de veritate,

Cruciform
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"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
   
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Nick M Nick M is offline
I find your lack of faith disturbing
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May 5th, 2012, 06:37 PM
Pate, you forgot the "Pentecostals". They try to earn their salvatoin also.




Jesus saves completely. A9D-EL

Titus 1:10-11

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 5th, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Nick M View Post
Pate, you forgot the "Pentecostals". They try to earn their salvatoin also.

I haven't forgot, they are on my list.

Pentecostalism and Catholicism have a lot incommon.
   
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May 5th, 2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Jesus taught the law.
You cannot be for Jesus if you are against everything He taught.
Are you for Jesus or against Jesus?
Are you pro-Christ or anti-Christ?




Learn to read what is written.
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 10:01 AM
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You cannot be for Jesus if you are against everything He taught.
Are you for Jesus or against Jesus?
Are you pro-Christ or anti-Christ?

I am not against anything that Jesus taught.

What I am saying is that you cannot do what Jesus is commanding you to do because you are a sinner.

Best to confess that you fall short of what is required and let Jesus save you. Other wise you will become a hypocrite.

By the way, have you plucked out your eye yet? If I see someone with one hand and one eye I will know that it is you.
   
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May 6th, 2012, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
I am not against anything that Jesus taught.
Let's see if you do what you say you don't do:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
By the way, have you plucked out your eye yet? If I see someone with one hand and one eye I will know that it is you.
Yep, you go against the teachings of Jesus.




Learn to read what is written.
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
Let's see if you do what you say you don't do:

Yep, you go against the teachings of Jesus.

No I don't. The commandments are holy, just and good.

Jesus taught the law to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards.

You don't measure up because you are a sinner in need of a savior.

Do you love God with all of your heart and your neighbor as yourself?

Of course you don't!

You don't like me telling you that you don't keep the commandments. The Pharisees didn't like it either, Matthew 23:28.
   
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May 6th, 2012, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
Jesus taught the law to show you that you don't measure up to God's standards.
Where did you get that foolishness?




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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 6th, 2012, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
Where did you get that foolishness?
Do you really think that you can keep the law?

Paul screamed at the Galatians, "Tell me that you desire to be under the law, DO YOU NOT HEAR THE LAW?" Galatians 4:21.

The law demands absolute perfection. James said, "For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, HE IS GUILTY OF ALL." James 2:10.

Jesus Christ was the law of God incarnate in human flesh. Are you Jesus Christ? No, you have been born after Adam, you are a sinner, Romans 3:23.
   
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Gurucam Gurucam is offline
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May 7th, 2012, 07:35 AM
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Originally Posted by genuineoriginal View Post
Matthew 28:19-20
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.




Matthew 11:30
30For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
The laws are for those under the law (re. Romans: 3 verse: 19). Those under the law are 'the dead'. (re Jesus' request that Christians let 'the dead' bury their dead).

Other are under righteousness of God that is without the law (re. Romans: 3 verse: 21). Those under righteousness of God that is without the law are Christians.

Those who esteem the law are under the law. They are required to uphold all the laws to the letter for their righteousness. (i.e. they are debtors to do the whole law.) And they are not under grace and being in Christ is not for them (re. Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4)

. . . . . Scriptures can hardly be any clearer.



Last edited by Gurucam; May 7th, 2012 at 11:28 AM.
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 7th, 2012, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post


The laws are for those under the law (re. Romans: 3 verse: 19). Those under the law are 'the dead'. (re Jesus' request that Christians let 'the dead' bury their dead).

Other are under righteousness of God that is without the law (re. Romans: 3 verse: 21). Those under righteousness of God that is without the law are Christians.

Those who esteem the law are under the law. They are required to uphold all the laws to the letter for their righteousness. And they are not under grace and being in Christ is not for them (re. Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4)

"Now we know that what ever the law says, it says to them who are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," Romans 3:19, 20.

Trying to be justified by the law is a sure ticket to hell.
   
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Gurucam Gurucam is offline
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May 7th, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert Pate View Post
"Now we know that what ever the law says, it says to them who are under the law; that every mouth may be stopped and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin," Romans 3:19, 20.

Trying to be justified by the law is a sure ticket to hell.

Also being put under the is the same. Also putting one self under the law is the same.
Indeed. If there was a law given that could give life righteousness would have been by law. However there is none. Not even the Ten Commandment giveth life (re. Galatians: 3 verses: 21 & 22)

So now righteousness of God without the law is manifested (re. Romans: 3 verse: 21)

Jesus came to free us from the curse of the law (re. Galatians: 3 verse:13).

Some have refused this gift of Jesus from God.

This is how God sent Jesus:

God sent Jesus in His Spirit. God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6).

This is the second sending of Jesus and this time He came in His Spirit. Now the Lord is that Spirit (2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 17). And this second time Jesus came to deliver salvation and deliverance. Jesus came the first time in His flesh. In this first coming, Jesus did not come to deliver salvation and deliverance. He came to be a flesh and blood sacrifice for those under the law, in accordance with Moses tradition. In this way all their past sin were forgiven. However in order not to accrue future sin they had to embrace the Spirit of Jesus and be led by it.

If they did not embrace Jesus in His second coming, i.e. in His Spirit, they are back to the old system under the law. They are under the law and they must uphold all the laws which they esteem to the letter. And they are not under grace and being in Christ is not for them. Jesus has benefited them nothing (re. Galatians: 5 verses: 1 to 4).

Most have not picked up this offer of Jesus in His Spirit.

Laws do not speaking to those under the Spirit. Laws including the Ten Commandments and things of laws have nothing to do with those under the Spirit of Jesus as discerned within one's own heart . . . . . no law giveth life (re. Galatians: 3 verses: 21 & 22) . Only the Spirit (of Jesus) giveth life (re. 2 Corinthians: 3 verse: 6).

So do not be quoting laws or commandments of any kind if you want life, salvation and deliverance. Do not be quoting or promoting any law if you seek to follow Jesus in the regeneration. To follow Jesus in the regeneration is linked to the Holy Ghost (re. Titus: 3 verse: 5). Following Jesus in the regeneration is to be led by the Spirit of Jesus which is also the Holy Ghost. God sent the Spirit of Jesus/the Holy Ghost into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6).

Those who follow Jesus in the regeneration are those who are led into all of their works by precisely what the Spirit of Jesus/the Holy Ghost has in mind for them to pray for, say and do as discern within their own hearts, even of they have to transgress the Ten Commandments or any other law of society, morality and religiosity. (re. Romans: 8 verses: 26 & 27 and The Act: 13 verse: 39) They have to thread the same path as Abraham and Rehab.

For the past 2000 odd years foolishness prevailed as Truth in what passes for Christianity. This was done unwittingly. It was done by false prophets who came in Jesus' name. These false prophets did not and still do not realize that they were false prophets. The believed that they were authentic Christians and/or authentic prophets and they usurped the Christian name and erroneously went on to pedal the law including other laws and canons as Christianity. For the past 2000 years and to the present many were and are called to their churches and few make it, few are chosen. The very great majority of those called (i.e. all but the few) err because they do not get or know Truth and they do not become children of God, they do not become Christians.

They remained children of the flesh who are Satan, like Peter.



Last edited by Gurucam; May 7th, 2012 at 12:47 PM.
   
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Robert Pate Robert Pate is offline
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May 7th, 2012, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Gurucam View Post


Indeed. If there was a law given that could give life righteousness would have been by law. However there is none. Not even the Ten Commandment giveth life (re. Galatians: 3 verses: 21 & 22)

So now righteousness of God without the law is manifested (re. Romans: 3 verse: 21)

Jesus came to free us from the curse of the law (re. Galatians: 3 verse:13).

Some have refused this gift of Jesus from God.

This is how God sent Jesus:

God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law so that they might become adopted children of God (Galatians: 4 verses: 5 & 6).

Most have not picked up this offer of Jesus in His Spirit.

The law is not speaking to those under the Spirit. The law and things of the law has nothing to do with those under the Spirit of Jesus as discerned within one's own heart.

This is where we differ.

God sent Jesus into the world as the new Adam and humanities representative to fulfill the law in our name and on our behalf, Romans 5:19.

The Holy Spirit is given to those who believe the Gospel, Galatians 3:2.
   
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