toldailytopic: Objectively, when does a person become a person? At conception? Or at
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So what if there is no case law or a specific one on the books. My logic tells me if medical practice cannot save both, at least save one. That might be considered constructive. When lawyers meet such a conundrum of no law or case history, they must give a constructive solution, a third choice and prove it is best..
So what if there is no case law or a specific one on the books. My logic tells me if medical practice cannot save both, at least save one. That might be considered constructive. When lawyers meet such a conundrum of no law or case history, they must give a constructive solution, a third choice and prove it is best..
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 27th, 2012, 11:50 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Save one, but don't actively kill the other.
Yes---"First, do no harm..."
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
If someone is in a car wreck but hasn't yet died and is unconscious, possibly in a coma, and they are not hooked up to machines to save their life, similar to when such amenities were unavailable, letting them die is not the same as shooting them in the head while their heart is still beating.
So since the zygote does not have a heartbeat, actively removing it from the mother is not the same as killing it. Gotcha.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Someone dying because you can't save then is not the same as stabbing them to death.
This sounds remarkably close to, "And then you can kill the baby."
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 29th, 2012, 12:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
This sounds remarkably close to, "And then you can kill the baby."
"I cannot save the baby" and "I can kill the baby" sound "remarkably close" to you?
Doctor concerning a car-crash victim: "I cannot save this man." Accompanying nurse: "Here's an overdose of morphine to kill the patient, doctor."
This actually makes sense to you...?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
"I cannot save the baby" and "I can kill the baby" sound "remarkably close" to you?
Doctor concerning a car-crash victim: "I cannot save this man." Accompanying nurse: "Here's an overdose of morphine to kill the patient, doctor."
This actually makes sense to you...?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Welcome to the middle of the conversation.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
May 29th, 2012, 02:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CabinetMaker
Welcome to the middle of the conversation.
Whatever...
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
"I cannot save the baby" and "I can kill the baby" sound "remarkably close" to you?
Doctor concerning a car-crash victim: "I cannot save this man." Accompanying nurse: "Here's an overdose of morphine to kill the patient, doctor."
This actually makes sense to you...?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
This is not an accurate representation of the situation. In order to save the life of the mother-person, the doctor must take a knife and end the life of the baby-person. In some circles, the argument has been presented that any legislation that ends in, "And then you can kill the baby" is unacceptable. This is a situation wherein the law needs to clearly specify whether the life of the mother-person allows the baby-person to be killed.
What makes it different is the key. In your scenario, the person is allowed to die due to the extent of their injuries. In the ectopic pregnancy scenario the baby-person will only die after its development causes a rupture in the fallopian tube that will very likely kill the mother. It is not a case wherein simply withhold medical treatment results in death.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
QUESTION: What, in your opinion, does a living human embryo lack that would somehow make it a person?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
Anything recognizably person-like in any possible subjective or objective way. An embryo isn't sentient. I've covered some of this ground previously in the thread.
Theocrats are Social Darwinists.
Christianity has nothing applicable, appropriate, or worthwhile to offer the 21st century.
This is not an accurate representation of the situation. In order to save the life of the mother-person, the doctor must take a knife and end the life of the baby-person. In some circles, the argument has been presented that any legislation that ends in, "And then you can kill the baby" is unacceptable. This is a situation wherein the law needs to clearly specify whether the life of the mother-person allows the baby-person to be killed.
What makes it different is the key. In your scenario, the person is allowed to die due to the extent of their injuries. In the ectopic pregnancy scenario the baby-person will only die after its development causes a rupture in the fallopian tube that will very likely kill the mother. It is not a case wherein simply withhold medical treatment results in death.
So it isn't possible to remove the baby without actively killing it first?
So it isn't possible to remove the baby without actively killing it first?
The act of removing it kills it.
Galatians 5:22-23 (New International Version)
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
May 27th, 2012, 11:50 AM
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