If the God of Joshua told you to slit a baby's throat, would you?
ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
I see a similarity...somebody hid behind a creature and asked Eve a trick question to lure her into saying or thinking bad about God. Then somebody hid behind the keyboard and asked everybody here a trick question to lure everybody into saying or thinking bad about God.
That pretty well cinches it. At random I picked several wacko phrases you had used, and I cobble them together into an absolutely nonsensical statement, yet you agree with it. It is pretty obvious that you are no more discriminating than some kind of mindless malware that infests a board and randomly reorganizes the words it see there.
Try really really hard to do this. Answer the question in the OP with a simple yes or no.
Your reading comprehension makes it difficult for you to be clever enough to even write a contradoctory sentence.
Within what you stated is the confused but clear idea that God does tell patriarchs like the early Hebrew society of Moses and the muslims of today to kill whole societies of people including their children.
God's like Mammon in pagan societies tell them to abort babies.
The middle ground between these two polar opposite types of worship is Christianity.
Christians are told to teach against sexual promiscuity in pagan societies instead of acting have the patriarchs throughout history.
What is important is to see that God's OT correctly identifies what He has told patriarchs to do to children and all members of pagan societies.
God's NT tells christians to tolerate sexualy promiscuous societies while preaching for their salvation.
Hence, they do not kill but convert.
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Prefer "Disbeliever" to "Atheist". Beginning to think 100-200+ years ahead. Active Centrist Moderate, no option on "political spectrum" for Centrist.
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May 23rd, 2012, 05:51 PM
This thread is in the dust. I'm wondering whether and how to start another thread about the nature of these arguments... Why is it the dialogue, if I can dignify it so, always seems to be just sparring, spitting, mean-spirited, excessively and unproductively combative? Don't bother reminding me of stuff I said, I know already.
Can't we learn how to verbally fight and keep it fair, and clean, and worth re-reading?
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Really?
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May 23rd, 2012, 06:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Delmar
I would sort of like for you to show me where I did that. Having said that, it should come as no surprise to you that I have concluded that the Bible is true. Still I suppose I may owe you an apology for not being more clear about the fact that I assumed the reader would understand that anyone who would do what is described in the OP's "hypothetical" would do so only if the evidence that God was just, that His motives are pure and that the fact that God was truly demanding these actions be taken were irrefutable.
I've said before in this thread that no deity who ordered me to kill a child/infant was deserving of my devotion and was evil to the core.
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For this we need to go back to context. In the story, as it is told, Joshua and his army were witnesses to many great miracles, and heard first hand of many more starting with the exodus!
Joshua's army wasn't privy to the Exodus. They must have omitted that part in the Sunday School you attended.
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I do understand that the OP is a hypothetical, and my answer, it seems to me, needs to be understood in the context of my having been witness to to same irrefutable evidence that Joshua was witness to. I didn't spell that out because it seemed obvious to me and because the OP was demanding a simple yes or no. In fact, didn't you demand a simple yes or no of some people? That could have been someone else, I'm not sure.
IF you KNEW that your deity ordered you to kill a child would you do it? Explain.
"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
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May 23rd, 2012, 06:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave3712
Of course people who believe their god told them kill children do so.
The thing is that Jesus said not to do that, so chriatians like me would never hear our god say this.
But the patriarchs do hear their god say such things and they do such things.
The OT tells us that God did tell the Hebrew Patriarchs in the days of Moses to do this to pagan immoral sexually promiscuous societies, and they did it.
So is Islam trying to do this in Israel, where they blow up school buses, and with terrorists everywhere in the West.
The Great Father Figure, Hitler, who rose up over the decadent sexually loose immoral Germany of 1933 was a patriarch who did not even believe the OT, but true to what the OT actually says about patriarchs, Hitler reigned over the holocaust which did just that.
The OT does not lie.
Patriarchs will kill pagans and sexually promiscuous people, exterminating whole populations, children and all, if found in their midst because god tells them this behavior should be crushed and eliminated.
Dave, you're a nut case . . . welcome to my ignore list.
"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
I've said before in this thread that no deity who ordered me to kill a child/infant was deserving of my devotion and was evil to the core.
I have explained that I believe all people's lives belong to the creator and that He, having designed every life to to be lived in two stages, has the prerogative to end the first stage and move that life to the next stage when He chooses. I get that you don't buy this argument!
Quote:
Joshua's army wasn't privy to the Exodus. They must have omitted that part in the Sunday School you attended.
You seem to have misunderstood what I said. They heard the stories first hand from the people that were there! Has there never been an event that your parents or some other person told you about, that you believed solely on the credibility of the person who witnessed it?
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IF you KNEW that your deity ordered you to kill a child would you do it? Explain.
I have answered the question and I have explained to the best of my ability. You don't find my explanation to be reasonable. Let me know if you think we have anything further to discuss.
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
This thread is in the dust. I'm wondering whether and how to start another thread about the nature of these arguments... Why is it the dialogue, if I can dignify it so, always seems to be just sparring, spitting, mean-spirited, excessively and unproductively combative? Don't bother reminding me of stuff I said, I know already.
Can't we learn how to verbally fight and keep it fair, and clean, and worth re-reading?
Because, essentially, it is is asking "Do you still beat your wife?"
Then when getting "I don't beat my wife" it goes to "Do you still condone your father beating your mother?"
If our opponents would learn to ask less vitriolic purposefully/slanderous questions, we could probably carry a decent and meaningful conversation.
As it was, I'm pleased with nearly all on this thread for playing the Kobayashi Maru. I'm least pleased with those grading; seemingly to me, unfairly, unethically, unempathetically, and/or without remorse (respectively, not necessarily to all grading responses and thankful for those who didn't grade but listened).
Now to Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that works in us,
to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, forever. Amen. -Ephesians 3:20 & 21
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. But when I became an adult, I set aside childish ways. - Let's at least work at it?
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Separation of church and State is not atheism "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
This thread is in the dust. I'm wondering whether and how to start another thread about the nature of these arguments... Why is it the dialogue, if I can dignify it so, always seems to be just sparring, spitting, mean-spirited, excessively and unproductively combative? Don't bother reminding me of stuff I said, I know already.
Can't we learn how to verbally fight and keep it fair, and clean, and worth re-reading?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lon
Because, essentially, it is is asking "Do you still beat your wife?"
Then when getting "I don't beat my wife" it goes to "Do you still condone your father beating your mother?"
If our opponents would learn to ask less vitriolic purposefully/slanderous questions, we could probably carry a decent and meaningful conversation.
As it was, I'm pleased with nearly all on this thread for playing the Kobayashi Maru. I'm least pleased with those grading; seemingly to me, unfairly, unethically, unempathetically, and/or without remorse (respectively, not necessarily to all grading responses and thankful for those who didn't grade but listened).
What Lon said. Basically the thread started with "Your God is evil and you are evil if you follow him. Go ahead and try to defend your position while I mock you!"
heli
Do you have any suggestions about how to a keep a thread fair that didn't start out fair?
♠
"So if I stand, let me stand on the promise that You will see me
through
And if i can't let me fall on the Grace that first brought me to you"
Slogan/motto:
"A day is as a thousand years" is about perspective. Two hours on the highway, to a five year old, seems like an eternity! To a 50 year old trucker, it's just the start of a good morning
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
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