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Reload this Page interesting case that stopped my struggle on the Church's capital punishment teaching
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TruthSetsFree TruthSetsFree is offline
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interesting case that stopped my struggle on the Church's capital punishment teaching - May 21st, 2012, 05:48 PM
i used to strugle with the R Catholic Church's posiition on capital punishment... Since the Church is the one established by Christ himself and i can trust St Peter's successors to refrain from teaching error... i know.. and have known that i can accept the teaching even if i dont "get it" 100%

but after reading about the Adolph Eichman case, i TOTALLY get it

Eichman (spelling?) was a Nazi in charge of sending millions of Jews to the death camps. He said he was just folowing orders... flimsy excuse...but anyhow...

he escaped from Germany afte the war and some ppl helped him get to argentina... supposedly even som Catholics... so called

anyway, the Israelis finally found him and through a complicated scheme... were able to get him onto a plane to Israel where he was tried for his war crimes... and hanged

but almost all the way throu my research on this i had this feeling... that even he is salvagable.. With God al things are possible.

on the plane, when one of the crew found out she was sitting next to him, she moved away in revulsion...

But of course the Christian thing would be to try to save his soul... to speak to him of Jesus and salvation... which no one did. Of course Israelis are not Christians... (most)

anyway, while the guy had been out some 15 or so yrs he cared for his wife and children, maintained a job...

I am not excusing what he did ONE bit...

i just think that he should have gotten life in prison... so he could have had a lot of time to htink about what he had done... and how wrong it was... and he may have found redemption. He may have been on his way to that anyway since his wife was always reading the Bible... out loud sometimes... He didn't like it but i know some of it had to have sunk in.. In the slammer, there is nothing BUT time to do such things as read the Bible..

so anyhow... I now fully u/stand the RCC's position on the death p
   
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May 21st, 2012, 07:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree View Post
i used to strugle with the R Catholic Church's posiition on capital punishment... Since the Church is the one established by Christ himself and i can trust St Peter's successors to refrain from teaching error... i know.. and have known that i can accept the teaching even if i dont "get it" 100%

but after reading about the Adolph Eichman case, i TOTALLY get it

Eichman (spelling?) was a Nazi in charge of sending millions of Jews to the death camps. He said he was just folowing orders... flimsy excuse...but anyhow...

he escaped from Germany afte the war and some ppl helped him get to argentina... supposedly even som Catholics... so called

anyway, the Israelis finally found him and through a complicated scheme... were able to get him onto a plane to Israel where he was tried for his war crimes... and hanged

but almost all the way throu my research on this i had this feeling... that even he is salvagable.. With God al things are possible.

on the plane, when one of the crew found out she was sitting next to him, she moved away in revulsion...

But of course the Christian thing would be to try to save his soul... to speak to him of Jesus and salvation... which no one did. Of course Israelis are not Christians... (most)

anyway, while the guy had been out some 15 or so yrs he cared for his wife and children, maintained a job...

I am not excusing what he did ONE bit...

i just think that he should have gotten life in prison... so he could have had a lot of time to htink about what he had done... and how wrong it was... and he may have found redemption. He may have been on his way to that anyway since his wife was always reading the Bible... out loud sometimes... He didn't like it but i know some of it had to have sunk in.. In the slammer, there is nothing BUT time to do such things as read the Bible..

so anyhow... I now fully u/stand the RCC's position on the death p


Executions save the lives of victims because they are a deterent.
   
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icilian fenner icilian fenner is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by dave3712 View Post


Executions save the lives of victims because they are a deterent.



   
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The Barbarian The Barbarian is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 08:55 PM
One way to test the correlation is to see what's happened to the murder rate in states without capital punishment, relative to those with capital punishment. If the assumption is correct, then states with capital punishment will have fewer murders.

It appears the assumption is wrong.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dete...r-murder-rates



It's not a big effect, but in general, it appears that the death penalty is counterproductive.




God bless us, every one.
   
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Nick M Nick M is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by icilian fenner View Post
So then you admit carbon dioxide with temp increases have no correlation! Excellent!




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Titus 1:10-11

For there are many insubordinate, both idle talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, whose mouths must be stopped
   
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Angel4Truth Angel4Truth is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
One way to test the correlation is to see what's happened to the murder rate in states without capital punishment, relative to those with capital punishment. If the assumption is correct, then states with capital punishment will have fewer murders.

It appears the assumption is wrong.
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/dete...r-murder-rates



It's not a big effect, but in general, it appears that the death penalty is counterproductive.

Are you under the impression that the main purpose of the death penalty is a crime deterrent?
   
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The Barbarian The Barbarian is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 09:38 PM
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Are you under the impression that the main purpose of the death penalty is a crime deterrent?
As you see, it's more of a crime encourager.




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Angel4Truth Angel4Truth is offline
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May 21st, 2012, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
As you see, it's more of a crime encourager.
Don't quit your day job - you wouldnt make it as a psychic.

The main reason is for punishment.

Yes, i know libs don't like that word.
   
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May 21st, 2012, 09:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post

It's not a big effect, but in general, it appears that the death penalty is counterproductive.
Cross state comparisons are not necessarily insightful:

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...badgers-1.html

http://iowahawk.typepad.com/iowahawk...e-witless.html

The first graph was equally bad. BTW.




It is bad enough that so many people believe things without any evidence. What is worse is that some people have no conception of evidence and regard facts as just someone else's opinion.
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May 21st, 2012, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by The Barbarian View Post
As you see, it's more of a crime encourager.
Actually it IS a deterrent. A dead murder is deterred from ever murdering again.
   
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May 21st, 2012, 10:21 PM
the death penalty and the appeal system would be an interesting graphic.

Now I wonder if the death penalty administered in a quick and timely fashion would be the same as someone sentenced to death and appealing for 10 to 15 or sometimes 20yrs is the same thing?
, something about justice delayed is justice denied....
   
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May 21st, 2012, 10:24 PM
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Actually it IS a deterrent. A dead murder is deterred from ever murdering again.



   
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May 22nd, 2012, 04:39 AM
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So then you admit carbon dioxide with temp increases have no correlation! Excellent!
Correlation itself is not enough. And you mixed up correlation and causation. Aside from that, you're doing fine.



   
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May 22nd, 2012, 04:34 PM
i was going to say the same thing

but in any case, whether it deters or not was not the topic

the main point is that the Church is speaking for GOD, not some human perspective

just because humans receive that message, in this case the pope,
does not mean it is not a divine message

everything the Church teaches can be trusted... what it officially ex cathedra teaches...

some liberal preist may teach something different... (been THERE)

but that is not what i am speaking of

as far as cap p... it is a VERY serious thing to take a human life.

U cannot bring that life back... you cannot give life and you should be VERY careful about when to take it...

humans love to play God
   
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May 22nd, 2012, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree View Post
humans love to play God
Well, if Satan hadn't whispered "E=mc^2" into Einstein's ear, we wouldn't be having this problem...




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