[Letsargue]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

Isn't it when God became flesh in the person of Jesus, that the relationship became clearly seen and named? Thus we see God as the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the NT in a way that was not as plainly revealed in the OT.

What is so difficult to you guys??

“GOD” is the "ONE" who “THOUGHT”, and “SAID” what HE THOUGHT.

God, -- His Spirit = “THOUGHT’ / and His voice = “SON”, they three are of the Same = ONE!!

Paul – 052712

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

First a correction regarding a source. I typed "Young's Analytical Greek Lexicon" when I meant to type Moulton's Analytical Greek Lexicon. I edited and made the correction in that post.


I read the op more than once and I am just as baffled now as I was then. You admit that 'heis' indicates a composite one. Your admission helps the Trinitrian.

Where does the Op prove that.

One apple is one apple not three apples.

First, your argument begs the question. You assume that there are agents in Genesis 11:7 when none are mentioned.

Second, they were NOT mere agents in Genesis 19 but were YHWH Himself.

again--

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Gen 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.


Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;

1. Verse 13 says that an outcry came before the FACES of YHWH. The Hebrew word for 'face' is plural. The 'face' in scripture denotes the actual person. It says that the outcry came before the FACES of YHWH. Therefore, YHWH is more than one person and you have been disproven. See the plural 'faces' in the online Hebrew Interlinear for Genesis 19:13.
http://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineI...brew_Index.htm

How many faces does Christ have? Has Jesus four faces?

Have you read of the four faces of Christ in the gospels?

Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

How many spirits does God have? Is God seven spirits?

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

2. Verse 24 says that YHWH rained down fire FROM YHWH

Then YHWH rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, FROM YHWH out of the heavens.

More than one person!



1. So what! In Genesis 1:26-27 the man and the woman are referred to in the plural "Them" and then in the singular "He" just like God!

2. Moses was called an elohim to Pharoah and not to the people of God.

Moses was elohim to Aaron and Aaron was elohim to Gods people.

Moses wrote the Pentateuch after he received the law at Sinai. He wrote it after he received the law against profaning the name of YHWH, Leviticus 24:16. I marvel that you can suggest that Moses would call YHWH's agents by the name "YHWH" when they were not YHWH after he received the law which prohibited it.

I marvel that you can fault Trinitarians for calling Jesus by the name YHWH when you say YHWH's agents are called YHWH. I marvel also that you cannot see God's tri-unity when three persons appeared to Abraham who were called "YHWH."

You have been disproven. Verse 13 says that the outcry went before the FACES of YHWH. The face denotes the person. Therefore, if God has "faces" (plural), then He is more than one Person.

I marvel that you do not read correctly nor able to understand what I said.

LA

[Letsargue]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

Where does the Op prove that.

One apple is one apple not three apples.






again--

Gen 18:20 And the LORD said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous;
Gen 18:21 I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know.
Gen 18:22 And the men turned their faces from thence, and went toward Sodom: but Abraham stood yet before the LORD.


Gen 19:1 And there came two angels to Sodom at even; and Lot sat in the gate of Sodom: and Lot seeing them rose up to meet them; and he bowed himself with his face toward the ground;





How many faces does Christ have? Has Jesus four faces?

Have you read of the four faces of Christ in the gospels?

Rev 4:7 And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle.
Rev 4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

How many spirits does God have? Is God seven spirits?

Rev 5:6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.







Moses was elohim to Aaron and Aaron was elohim to Gods people.




I marvel that you do not read correctly nor able to understand what I said.

LA

The apple has pulp and it has juice. All three are different but of the SAME APPLE!! SO now what?? You want to compare oranges??

Paul – 052712

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

The apple has pulp and it has juice. All three are different but of the SAME APPLE!! SO now what?? You want to compare oranges??

Paul – 052712

I believe God is ONE.

The trinity likewise teaches He is one. It is all a matter of semantics, and judging other's over semantics is silly, in mho.

We should stick to the weightier matters, mercy and love.

[oatmeal]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

The apple has pulp and it has juice. All three are different but of the SAME APPLE!! SO now what?? You want to compare oranges??

Paul – 052712

Let's see,

1. pulp

2. juice

Ok, so you go to the grocery store and buy a pound of apples and they give you a pound of pulp.

or a pound of juice.

All three are different but of the SAME APPLE!!

do you know the difference between pulp and juice and apples?

apparently not.

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by oatmeal

Let's see,

1. pulp

2. juice

Ok, so you go to the grocery store and buy a pound of apples and they give you a pound of pulp.

or a pound of juice.



do you know the difference between pulp and juice and apples?

apparently not.

The word "God" means "ruler" or "government." In fact, in some instances the anti-trinitarian New World Translation translates the word "elohim" as "government."

Take an analogy from the U.S. government.

Executive branch + Legislative branch + Judicial branch = one government. Our three branches of government are not three governments. They form one government.

Got the picture?

The Father + the Son + the Holy Spirit = one Ruler or Government.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

What is so difficult to you guys??

“GOD” is the "ONE" who “THOUGHT”, and “SAID” what HE THOUGHT.

God, -- His Spirit = “THOUGHT’ / and His voice = “SON”, they three are of the Same = ONE!!

Paul – 052712

It's certainly not difficult for me....why do you assume it is? Because I wanted to draw out more dialogue for the truth instead of the error that's promoted by some on this board?

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

Agreed. It was not as plainly revealed in the old testament.

Certainly a clearer "revelation" of God would be His coming in the flesh.

[Letsargue]

Originally Posted by NewDay

I believe God is ONE.

The trinity likewise teaches He is one. It is all a matter of semantics, and judging other's over semantics is silly, in mho.

We should stick to the weightier matters, mercy and love.

If one teaches error, he becomes a false teacher, condemning himself. You can do that if you like, I care not. - However, God does think, and speaks what He thinks; that is the Trinity of the one God; God, the Spirit, and the Son.

Paul -- 052812

[Wile E. Coyote]

TO ALL,

The Greek "heis" may indicate a composite one.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all ONE (heis) in Christ Jesus. , Galatians 3:28.

The Greek translation of the old testament uses "heis" to translate "echad" in Genesis 2:24:

ενεκεν τουτου καταλειψει ανθρωπος τον πατερα αυτου και την μητερα αυτου και προσκολληθησεται προς την γυναικα αυτου και εσονται οι δυο εις (heis) σαρκα μιαν

Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become ONE (echad) flesh.

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

What is so difficult to you guys??

“GOD” is the "ONE" who “THOUGHT”, and “SAID” what HE THOUGHT.

God, -- His Spirit = “THOUGHT’ / and His voice = “SON”, they three are of the Same = ONE!!

Paul – 052712

Amen

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

If one teaches error, he becomes a false teacher, condemning himself. You can do that if you like, I care not. - However, God does think, and speaks what He thinks; that is the Trinity of the one God; God, the Spirit, and the Son.

Paul -- 052812

First, I do not consider someone's 'faith' on any given issue, when they express it as them 'teaching'. We are all at different levels of understanding, and if one man's faith is weak in this or that area, while the same man/woman may be strong in another area..it is faith in HIM, that saves, not knowledge/doctrines, outside of the basic gospel.

None of us has it all figured out, and when we pretend we do, and judge others that are lesser in knowledge, but saved by the same simple/basic gospel, as false teachers, we fail not only the 'truth', as a whole, but the very love of God that Jesus died to place in us all.




So, when I see a 'trinitarian' describing their faith, in how they view the One God, I do not view it as them trying to force feed it to me, or likewise, it is the same with the other group that see's God having only one 'Person', as myself...would fist into that group/category.

We all believe in ONE GOD. That is what really matters, the semantics will work itself out, when we all stand before God on judgement day. Until then, I think it is 'nuts' to judge a man's faith, in any given topic that is OUTside the gospel message.

That's my story, and Im stickin' to it.....

We should be MORE worried about 'mercy and love'..for one another.

[Letsargue]

Originally Posted by NewDay

First, I do not consider someone's 'faith' on any given issue, when they express it as them 'teaching'. We are all at different levels of understanding, and one man's faith is weak in this or that area, while the same man/woman may be strong in another area. None of us has it all figured out, and we we pretended we did, we would be fools.

So, when I see a 'trinitarian' describing their faith, in how they view the One God, I do not view it as them trying to force feed it to me, or likewise, it is the same with the other group that see's God having only one 'Person', as myself.

We all believe in ONE GOD. That is what really matters, the semantics will work itself out, when we all stand before God on judgement day. Until then, I think it is 'nuts' to judge a man's faith, in any given topic that is OUTside the gospel message.

That's my story, and Im stickin' to it.....

We should be MORE worried about 'mercy and love'..for one another.

COME ON!!!

If a person is “CHRISTIAN” he cannot teach error, - even once, and if he does teach ANY ERROR, he cannot be CHRISTIAN because he teaches for Christ by inspiration, and not of himself. -- The Devil speaks of himself in lies, not the Christian ( PERIOD )
One is not to teach until he “IS AT LEAST” ( A BISHOP )!!! - The Bishop is the starting point for teaching anything, to any one in the Church. – When Paul was met by Jesus, on the Road, Paul was TOLD! – HE WAS “TOLD” that what he heard was unlawful for a “MAN” to teach. That’s referring to any common man who is not at least a Bishop. Paul became higher than a Bishop, and TAUGHT, and created Churches for Christ. – The Words that Paul heard that were unlawful for a man to utter, (( WAS THE GOSPEL )), and nothing else!!! It’s unlawful for a non Bishop to teach the Gospel, but listen to all the violators of God, - teach anything they choose, from their own foolish hearts.

Paul – 052912

[NewDay]

Originally Posted by Letsargue

COME ON!!!

If a person is “CHRISTIAN” he cannot teach error, - even once, and if he does teach ANY ERROR, he cannot be CHRISTIAN because he teaches for Christ by inspiration, and not of himself. -- The Devil speaks of himself in lies, not the Christian ( PERIOD )
One is not to teach until he “IS AT LEAST” ( A BISHOP )!!! - The Bishop is the starting point for teaching anything, to any one in the Church. – When Paul was met by Jesus, on the Road, Paul was TOLD! – HE WAS “TOLD” that what he heard was unlawful for a “MAN” to teach. That’s referring to any common man who is not at least a Bishop. Paul became higher than a Bishop, and TAUGHT, and created Churches for Christ. – The Words that Paul heard that were unlawful for a man to utter, (( WAS THE GOSPEL )), and nothing else!!! It’s unlawful for a non Bishop to teach the Gospel, but listen to all the violators of God, - teach anything they choose, from their own foolish hearts.

Paul – 052912

I edited my post, where it makes more sense.

(I hope)

Please read this, and see if you understand my intent:


First, I do not consider someone's 'faith' on any given issue, when they express it as them 'teaching'. We are all at different levels of understanding, and if one man's faith is weak in this or that area, while the same man/woman may be strong in another area..it is faith in HIM, that saves, not knowledge/doctrines, outside of the basic gospel.

None of us has it all figured out, and when we pretend we do, and judge others that are lesser in knowledge, but saved by the same simple/basic gospel, as false teachers, we fail not only the 'truth', as a whole, but the very love of God that Jesus died to place in us all.




So, when I see a 'trinitarian' describing their faith, in how they view the One God, I do not view it as them trying to force feed it to me, or likewise, it is the same with the other group that see's God having only one 'Person', as myself...would fist into that group/category.

We all believe in ONE GOD. That is what really matters, the semantics will work itself out, when we all stand before God on judgement day. Until then, I think it is 'nuts' to judge a man's faith, in any given topic that is OUTside the gospel message.

That's my story, and Im stickin' to it.....

We should be MORE worried about 'mercy and love'..for one another.


..and, I want to add. You are wrong to assume that you are not christian, if you speak a falsehood, concerning your 'faith'. We are saved by the milk, the milk alone is the gospel.

The rest is the meat that comes via the holy spirit at work in you, leading you into all truth.

It is because many make the whole bible the gospel, and judge one another on their interpretations that the very love of God is being evil spoken of..by men who have made themselves judges to judge the hearts of God's people, as evil doers.

If you disagree, I cannot help it. I must speak it as I have learned it.

Are you a christian or a judge?

Choose.

There is ONE Judge, many, many christians.

[Letsargue]

Originally Posted by NewDay

I edited my post, where it makes more sense.

(I hope)

Please read this, and see if you understand my intent:


First, I do not consider someone's 'faith' on any given issue, when they express it as them 'teaching'. We are all at different levels of understanding, and if one man's faith is weak in this or that area, while the same man/woman may be strong in another area..it is faith in HIM, that saves, not knowledge/doctrines, outside of the basic gospel.

None of us has it all figured out, and when we pretend we do, and judge others that are lesser in knowledge, but saved by the same simple/basic gospel, as false teachers, we fail not only the 'truth', as a whole, but the very love of God that Jesus died to place in us all.




So, when I see a 'trinitarian' describing their faith, in how they view the One God, I do not view it as them trying to force feed it to me, or likewise, it is the same with the other group that see's God having only one 'Person', as myself...would fist into that group/category.

We all believe in ONE GOD. That is what really matters, the semantics will work itself out, when we all stand before God on judgement day. Until then, I think it is 'nuts' to judge a man's faith, in any given topic that is OUTside the gospel message.

That's my story, and Im stickin' to it.....

We should be MORE worried about 'mercy and love'..for one another.


..and, I want to add. You are wrong to assume that you are not christian, if you speak a falsehood, concerning your 'faith'. We are saved by the milk, the milk alone is the gospel.

The rest is the meat that comes via the holy spirit at work in you, leading you into all truth.

It is because many make the whole bible the gospel, and judge one another on their interpretations that the very love of God is being evil spoken of..by men who have made themselves judges to judge the hearts of God's people, as evil doers.

If you disagree, I cannot help it. I must speak it as I have learned it.

Are you a christian or a judge?

Choose.

There is ONE Judge, many, many christians.

Please! -- Come on!

We don't have to FIGURE ANYTHING OUT!!. Jesus did ALL THAT for us, IF YOU ARE AMONG "US".
Romans 11:33-36 KJV - O THE DEPTH OF THE RICHES BOTH OF THE WISDOM AND KNOWLEDGE OF GOD! HOW UNSEARCHABLE ARE HIS JUDGMENTS, ----- and HIS WAYS PAST FINDING OUT ! 34- For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? 35- Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? 36- For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever”. ----- Have you ever heard of Inspiration, or Revelation? --- We all know that the LOST ARE "NOT"!!

Paul – 052912