If a person is born again, have they been saved? - Page 5 - Theology Online

Cross Reference · May 27th, 2012, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letsargue

Do not the "Wicked" do "Iniquity"?? - The wicked are all around you and us, doing those - "wonderful works" of their lord; NOT JESUS!! --- Being 74, you should know better.

Matthew 7:22-23 KHV - "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and (( in thy name done many wonderful works ))?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work "( Iniquity )".

Paul -- 052712

In the NT the word "iniquity" means almost exclusively, "lawless" or "lawlessness", which that passage infers. "But Lord didn't WE do those mighty acts that you blessed?" The wicked don't do those mighty acts, Doug __and you should know better.

Jesus said: "I never knew you": never had an intimate relationship with you.

Livelystone · May 27th, 2012, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

Let the bible say what it says. That is the best way to understand it.

The blood of Jesus Christ has done the accomplishing in our behalf. That is what the word of God is inferring. Nothing more. I believe that, don't you?

CR

The blood of Jesus Christ with the life of the Holy Spirit within it does what it does and cleanses from sin.

However that does not keep the evil spirit from moving back in that by law is designed to test our faith.

Paul spoke of a law in Romans 7:23 that brought him into captivity to the law of sin that is a evil principality living within our flesh. The same law showed up with Jesus when after he defeated Satan in their verbal confrontation, the Bible says that Satan departed him “for a season,” obviously indicating that he was going to come back to attempt to do his dirty deeds again.

In the parable of the unclean spirit the person could not stop it from returning to their heart because they did not know how, or for that matter even how to identify it when it appeared. (Unless someone wants to think that in the parable used by Jesus the person would take an evil spirit back on knowingly and on purpose.

The fact is the church that got its start by the apostles had also been infiltrated by false apostles before the last of the original apostles were out of the picture. By this point in time what is spoken of as being truth in the church is mostly lies.

Otherwise we would be seeing the same signs and wonders in the church today that were worked by the apostles.

God does not change and if he is present within a church, His presence is witnessed by signs and wonders. On the other hand if you do not see signs and wonders within a ministry it is because God is not working there.

Blessings

Doug

Cross Reference · May 27th, 2012, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livelystone

CR

The blood of Jesus Christ with the life of the Holy Spirit within it does what it does and cleanses from sin.

A process to be sure.

Here: "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)

I love the KJV, don't you?

Livelystone · May 27th, 2012, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

In the NT the word "iniquity" means almost exclusively, "lawless" or "lawlessness", which that passage infers. "But Lord didn't WE do those mighty acts that you blessed?" The wicked don't do those mighty acts, Doug __and you should know better.

Jesus said: "I never knew you": never had an intimate relationship with you.

Please only address me with my quotes!!!!!!!!

Fair enough?

Doug

Cross Reference · May 27th, 2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Please only address me with my quotes!!!!!!!!

Fair enough?

Doug

Fair enough__ gotta an answer.

Livelystone · May 27th, 2012, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

A process to be sure.

Here: "Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus: Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)

I love the KJV, don't you?

The 1st time I ever heard God speak in an audible voice to me in answer to a prayer was when I was asking him where do I go to get the truth, He told me not to go anywhere but to come to Him and to do so with the King James Bible.

Since then he has blessed me with knowledge far above my peers and His truth in me has been witnessed by His working many miracles.

Are miracles the end all say all? No they are not but without the presence of miracles there is no proof of God's blessing on a ministry.

Can Satan work miracles? For sure he can remove his hand of affliction from someone that may appear as a miracle. However, miracles done by God glorify God, and for sure Satan cannot raise the dead.

Blessings

Letsargue · May 27th, 2012, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

In the NT the word "iniquity" means almost exclusively, "lawless" or "lawlessness", which that passage infers. "But Lord didn't WE do those mighty acts that you blessed?" The wicked don't do those mighty acts, Doug __and you should know better.

Jesus said: "I never knew you": never had an intimate relationship with you.

Jesus said, "I NEVER KNEW YOU", or "I KNOW YOU NOT, whence ye are". -- There's no way you can turn that into godliness. There is EITHER " godliness or UN godliness, -- there is NO IN-BEWTEEN the Light, and darkness; - between Good and EVIL!!

Paul -- 051712

Cross Reference · May 27th, 2012, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Can Satan work miracles? For sure he can remove his hand of affliction from someone that may appear as a miracle. However, miracles done by God glorify God, and for sure Satan cannot raise the dead.

Blessings

Afflictions cannot be lifted arbitrarily. They are what are by God's permission and can only be lifted by His permission. What determines whatever God does is predicated upon the disposition of the one so afflicted by the devil. A "lawless" prayer of faith can accomplish such a "healing" __and to the detriment of the one afflicted as well as the "minister", would it be done.

Gurucam · May 27th, 2012, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Untellectual

If a person is born again, have they been saved?

Can salvation occur before we are judged by Jesus on the day God has determined Jesus will judge us?

In other words, can a person be born again (saved) before that time? Is it possible to be born again before you die?

What do the scriptures say?

Jesus spoke of being 'the dead' (i.e. in his statement, 'let the dead bury their dead'). He also confirmed that those whose hearts are waxed gross are not given to know the the mysteries of God kingdom.

Then through Paul Jesus confirmed that God sent the Spirit of Jesus into the hearts of those under the law, so that they might become adopted children of God.

Then we are told that children of God are led by the Spirit and that this Spirit is now the Lord.

Then we are told to search our hearts or spirits to know what the Spirit has in mind for us to pray for say and do.

It is clear therefore that those whose hearts are waxed gross (i.e. cover over) cannot discern the Spirit of Jesus which God sent into their hearts and therefore cannot be led by the Spirit.

This indicates at least three steps.

The first one is to become aware of one's own spirit. That is to de-waxed gross one's heart. Then one can search and access the Spirit of Jesus within one's own heart. Then one can be led by precisely what the Spirit has in mind for one to pray for, say and do, as discerned within one's own heart.

At each point in these three one can be distracted.

To be born of spirit is to be born again. This is to awaken to one's own spirit. At birth one is born aware of one's physical body and also one's spirit body. However as one is put through the rigors of parental, social, moral and religious conditioning, one looses awareness of one's spirit.

One has to become a child, again. One has to reawaken to one's own spirit. This is described as being 'born again'.

The essential fabric of one's spirit is same as the fabric of Jesus' Spirit. However one's own spirit and the Spirit of Jesus are different.

All of these things are supported absolutely by KJV N.T. revelations. I can supply them.

Untellectual · May 27th, 2012, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Livelystone

Wrong again!!!!!!!!

You are saved by grace

You learn the truths of the Holy Spirit through obedience.

That is why you are forever asking and never learning

The questions are to get you to think, and apparently you think the Holy Spirit is subject to your obedience. I believe the Holy Spirit causes us as believers to be obedient.

Untellectual · May 27th, 2012, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick M

Scripture says you are confused. Only one person so far is resurected (born again).Yet believers are saved.

I have quoted the relevant verses and shown how they say there are people who have been born again before they die. In fact, this is the only way these verses should be interpreted.

Untellectual · May 27th, 2012, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Letsargue

COME ON!! ---- Matthew 13:34 KJV - “( ALL THESE THINGS SPAKE ) Jesus unto the multitude in ( parables ); and (( WITHOUT A PARABLE SPAKE HE NOT UNTO THEM.))” ------//-- “Born Again” and “ALL other” examples, Jesus spoke of are just that, - EXAMPLES / PARABLES!! – Why is it that you all cannot understand that God ONLY GAVE PARABLES TO THE LOST!! – Not to the “CHOSEN”. – IF you are one of the “chosen” / “ANGELS”, then Jesus, - through the Holy Ghost HAS REVEALED THESE THINGS TO YOU. - Not in Parable, but what truly, truly is in store for them who LOVE “THE WORD OF TRUTH” / “JESUS”.

READ THE BOOK AND HAVE FAITH IN “IT” / THE WORD / “JESUS”!!
Seek the Truth / Christ / GOD / the Spirit!!

Paul – 052712

Are you saying a person cannot be born again because being born again is just a parable?

Livelystone · 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

Afflictions cannot be lifted arbitrarily. They are what are by God's permission and can only be lifted by His permission. What determines whatever God does is predicated upon the disposition of the one so afflicted by the devil. A "lawless" prayer of faith can accomplish such a "healing" __and to the detriment of the one afflicted as well as the "minister", would it be done.

The book of Job gives us proof that God sets a limit on what Satan can do, not what he cannot do! However, that is what you are saying in your post!

There is a considerable difference between the two.

What exactly is it you mean by "a lawless prayer of faith that can accomplish a healing"?

Please express yourself clearly and quote whatever Scripture you use to support your position.

Thanks in advance

Doug

Untellectual · May 27th, 2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cross Reference

Doug,

You wrote this awhile back in this thread:

What do you do with this verse: “I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.” Luke 5:32 (KJV)

I'm not Doug, but I agree with the verse.

Livelystone · May 27th, 2012, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Untellectual

The questions are to get you to think, and apparently you think the Holy Spirit is subject to your obedience. I believe the Holy Spirit causes us as believers to be obedient.

No you are wrong and you are twisting my words to say something that I have not said. For that I rebuke you in Jesus name!

You continue to insult me with your repugnant posts.

Doug