[Lazy afternoon]

By another poster---

I do see the big picture. He was conceived by the Holy Ghost, so He had the Spirit in His DNA. Jesus permitted John to Baptize Him, not so that He would receive a Spirit He didn't already have....He was Divine from His birth. He allowed John to Baptize Him for two reasons...to fulfill prophecy and to fulfill the Law which required Priests to be washed and annointed

Throughout the book of Acts, believers were filled with the Holy Spirit and glorified God when they first received it.

The AOG churches , Kenyon, Benny Hinn etc. all teach that you become a vessel of the Holy Spirit , a living tabernacle of the Spirit, at the instant you first believe.

This has always left the way for people to consider themselves to be Christians when they are not.

The folly then continues that such people of the AOG churches are then told they should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit instead of seeking Christ and surrendering their lives to Him, which often results in them seeking to speak in tongues instead and in the event of not doing so then they fake it or be regarded as not beimg "with it" like everyone else.

In the opening quote, the poster has given the errors behind that position.

He has said that Christ had the Spirit in His DNA from birth, which means Christ was not made like other men, could not effect the atonement legally, and neither could such a man actually die.

The verses showing Christ as being filled with all the fulness of God can only apply to Christ in His resurrected and Glorified state, and could not possible apply to Christ at His birth.

Two passages to think about--

Act 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.
Act 8:13 Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done.
Act 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
Act 8:15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
Act 8:16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
Act 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.


Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.


In both accounts the believers did not automatically receive the Holy Spirit when they believed.

and neither were they temples of the Holy Spirit, until the Holy Spirit fell /came upon them.

and neither was Jesus until the Holy Spirit came upon Him--

Joh 1:29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.
Joh 1:30 This is he of whom I said, After me cometh a man which is preferred before me: for he was before me.
Joh 1:31 And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.


LA

[Bright Raven]

Kenyon was a Free Will Baptist, Hinn is an unnamed Pentecostal. Why do you associate them with AOG?

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

Kenyon was a Free Will Baptist, Hinn is an unnamed Pentecostal. Why do you associate them with AOG?

Because the AOG here championed Kenyons books.

Study the verses for the truth regardless.

LA

[Bright Raven]

You don't believe you receive the Spirit at salvation?

[Wile E. Coyote]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

The verses showing Christ as being filled with all the fulness of God can only apply to Christ in His resurrected and Glorified state, and could not possible apply to Christ at His birth.

I would agree with LA on this one. But this would not negate the fact that Jesus pre-existed in the form of God and had possessed all the fulness of deity prior to His incarnation. He became nothing and He became obedient unto the death of the cross. Consequently, He was awarded the fulness of the deity in the humanity He had assumed.

As usual LA speaks half truths and half truths are FULL lies. So LA is no better than the false teachers he criticizes.

[Bright Raven]

The apostle Paul clearly taught that we receive the Holy Spirit the moment we receive Jesus Christ as our Savior. First Corinthians 12:13 declares, “For we were all baptized by one Spirit into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, slave or free—and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.” Romans 8:9 tells us that if a person does not possess the Holy Spirit, he or she does not belong to Christ: “You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ.” Ephesians 1:13-14 teaches us that the Holy Spirit is the seal of salvation for all those who believe: “Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God's possession—to the praise of his glory.”

These three passages make it clear that the Holy Spirit is received at the moment of salvation. Paul could not say that we all were baptized by one Spirit and all given one Spirit to drink if not all of the Corinthian believers possessed the Holy Spirit. Romans 8:9 is even stronger, stating that if a person does not have the Spirit, he does not belong to Christ. Therefore, the possession of the Spirit is an identifying factor of the possession of salvation. Further, the Holy Spirit could not be the “seal of salvation” (Ephesians 1:13-14) if He is not received at the moment of salvation. Many scriptures make it abundantly clear that our salvation is secured the moment we receive Christ as Savior.

This discussion is controversial because the ministries of the Holy Spirit are often confused. The receiving/indwelling of the Spirit occurs at the moment of salvation. The filling of the Spirit is an ongoing process in the Christian life. While we hold that the baptism of the Spirit also occurs at the moment of salvation, some Christians do not. This sometimes results in the baptism of the Spirit being confused with “receiving the Spirit” as an act subsequent to salvation.

[steko]

Post #6 by Bright Raven.

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote

I would agree with LA on this one. But this would not negate the fact that Jesus pre-existed in the form of God and had possessed all the fulness of deity prior to His incarnation. He became nothing and He became obedient unto the death of the cross. Consequently, He was awarded the fulness of the deity in the humanity He had assumed.

As usual LA speaks half truths and half truths are FULL lies. So LA is no better than the false teachers he criticizes.

I will let the Lord decide that, and He will.

LA

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Bright Raven

You don't believe you receive the Spirit at salvation?

When did the disciples of Christ become temples of the Holy Spirit?

LA

[Bright Raven]

You have already made up your mind that the Spirit is not received at salvation and I will not try to change that. I believe that post six is rather explicit in saying when we become temples of the Holy Spirit. Why reiterate?

[Bright Raven]

Why don't you just come out and say that the disciples waited as instructed per Acts 2. Now show me where it says in scripture that believers now must wait for the Spirit? Review Post 6.

[Bright Raven]

Rightly divide the Word as taught in Romans -Philemon. Your question concerning the disciples is for the Jews.

[Lazy afternoon]

When did the disciples of Christ become temples of the Holy Spirit?

LA

[Livelystone]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

When did the disciples of Christ become temples of the Holy Spirit?

LA

Good question!

We have some teachings in both the New Testament and Old Testament that shed light on the answer. Before looking at some of the principles behind what happened when we go to the cross where Jesus shed his blood for our sins, taking a look at thr parable of the sower and the seed gives us a good indication of those who do or do not receive "salvation".

Matt.13:3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.

A few verses later Jesus explains His own parable

Matt: 18 Hear ye therefore the parable of the sower.

19 When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side.

20 But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it;

21 Yet hath he not root in himself, but dureth for a while: for when tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he is offended.

22 He also that received seed among the thorns is he that heareth the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becometh unfruitful.

23 But he that received seed into the good ground is he that heareth the word, and understandeth it; which also beareth fruit, and bringeth forth, some an hundredfold, some sixty, some thirty.



The life of Christ is found in the blood of Christ, and it is at the Cross of Christ where His Blood shed for our sins is sprinkled upon our hearts. Being as we can no more go back to the physical cross then we can travel time, we have to understand that what was done then was done once and for all. Therefore, it is in the words of wisdom found in the Holy Bible where we learn the truth of our salvation.

The above parable shows that of all who initially attended a coming together with Jesus Christ's at His Cross, very few maintain and keep the seed that is Christ in them. Of those who do, some bring forth a 30 fold harvest, some 60, and some 100 such as the apostles who were a prophecy of a ministry whose time is now appearing on earth.

To teach that people can go to the cross and during their initial experience receive the seed of Christ to be in their hearts forever is not untrue, but it is highly misleading, to say the least.

Further study shows that it was only those who were obedient and waited as the disciples did in Jerusalem for Jesus to appear on to them who received the baptism of the Holy Ghost that can be compared to the seed of Christ in one's heart at the time it sprouts and takes root.

However, if that seed of Christ does not sprout upward and take root downward, there is no blessing but only a fearful condemnation awaiting the person for refusuing grace.

(This is also a violation of the commandment not to take the name of the Lord in vain making it one more sin in a person's life)

Blessings

Doug

[Cross Reference]

All mankind is the temple of the Holy Ghost. Problem is they don't know it.

Shouldn't that be the preaching of the church, that they find out?