Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone.
These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the H. S. baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc.
In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with:
Luke 24:49 ----- the promise power
Acts 1:4-8 ----- the promise power baptism with Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-19 -- power received Holy Spirit laying on of hands
Acts 2:1-4 ----- speaking in tongues filled with Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues received Holy Spirit the gift
Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues baptism with Holy Spirit laying on of hands
Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit the gift
Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the Holy Spirit baptism, not salvation.
Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.
God's precious Scriptures are of NO value to those who cannot (or will not) believe them! "For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God." Romans 8:14 It always was God's intention that His NT church be the ONLY model for all future churches!
Last edited by Redeemed-777; June 13th, 2012 at 02:51 PM.
These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit is INSIDE believers:
John 14:16-23, Romans 8:11, 1 Cor. 3:16, Gal 4:6, 2 Tim 1:14, 1 John 3:24, 1 John 4:12-16
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit coming UPON or resting UPON anyone.
These 7 verses show the Holy Spirit comes UPON believers when receiving the H. S. baptism:
Luke 24:49, Acts 1:4-8, Acts 2:1-4, Acts 8:14-19, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 11:15-17, Acts 19:5-6
There is absolutely NO mention of the Holy Spirit being INSIDE, moving INSIDE, etc.
In these 7 passages, UPON is linked with:
Luke 24:49 ----- the promise power
Acts 1:4-8 ----- the promise power baptism with Holy Spirit
Acts 8:14-19 -- power received Holy Spirit laying on of hands
Acts 2:1-4 ----- speaking in tongues filled with Holy Spirit
Acts 10:44-48 -- speaking in tongues received Holy Spirit the gift
Acts 19:5-6 ----- speaking in tongues baptism with Holy Spirit laying on of hands
Acts 11:15-17 -- baptism with Holy Spirit the gift
Please note that "promise" and "gift" are referring to the Holy Spirit baptism, not salvation.
Please note that "power" is referring to spiritual power from God.
Just read the BOOK as it's written and have FAITH in "IT". - "IT'S" too SIMPLE to make a GREAT PRODUCTION OUT OF IT!! -- Just ~~read it~~ and leave "IT" alone!!!
Paul -- 061312
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Thought I'd throw another baptism in there, so you guys can argue about it too.
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Thought I'd throw another baptism in there, so you guys can argue about it too.
Not really a different baptism. still water baptism
Not really a different baptism. still water baptism
You believe this is referring to water baptism?
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Read Romans 6:1-14 if you haven't already, if 6:4 is not sufficient for you to conclude that it's not speaking of water baptism. If you have read it, do you still think it's eluding to water baptism or representing maybe something more significant? If you remain sure in your conviction, after reading it in context, then I'll expound upon it further, as to why I believe it is not revealing a baptism of water.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Read Romans 6:1-14 if you haven't already, if 6:4 is not sufficient for you to conclude that it's not speaking of water baptism. If you have read it, do you still think it's eluding to water baptism or representing maybe something more significant? If you remain sure in your conviction, after reading it in context, then I'll expound upon it further, as to why I believe it is not revealing a baptism of water.
I have read it and I actually have the entire section committed to memory as a matter of fact and I still see nothing that indicates anything else. Baptism is a symbol of burial. It is a sign that we are being buried with Christ. Water baptism is a clear sign of that and in the 1st century nobody questioned what people meant when they said baptism. When somebody said you needed to be baptized it was pretty universally understood that that meant getting dunked in water.
I have read it and I actually have the entire section committed to memory as a matter of fact and I still see nothing that indicates anything else. Baptism is a symbol of burial. It is a sign that we are being buried with Christ. Water baptism is a clear sign of that and in the 1st century nobody questioned what people meant when they said baptism. When somebody said you needed to be baptized it was pretty universally understood that that meant getting dunked in water.
What you say is true, in that water baptism, the symbolism in there of, can be used to represent what is spoken of in Romans 6:4. Though by no means, is this verse being used to encourage baptism by water. Baptism in this sense is figurative, placing a mental picture in the listeners mind. The analogy is not explaining water but death. Paul begins to show us what this death entails in Romans 6:1-2, that it is a death to sin. In Romans 6:6 he also reveals a death to our old self, our corrupt flesh in bondage to sin. We also as in death with Christ, will be raised with Him in newness of life.
When Christ spoke in Luke 12:50, and Mark 10:38, He was referring to His death. Or when He says, I baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire; would you say, He must be speaking of water? Then why would you apply the same when someone is speaking of death? If a passage in context is void of any mentioning of water, then it's our job to discern the writer's intentions. So is Paul speaking of immersion into death or water?
I applaud your memorizing of scripture, though if someone was confused, and wished to acquire of your knowledge, as to what Romans 6:4 meant; and you explained it was about water baptism; I would have to say, you would fail to properly reiterate it's true meaning.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Romans 6:4
We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.
Thought I'd throw another baptism in there, so you guys can argue about it too.
Do like all the rest of the false churches, or false bodies of christ, and throw in anything and everything that fits your own false doctrine to satisfy your mind!! Just do it; who cares??
Paul -- 071812
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
I have read it and I actually have the entire section committed to memory as a matter of fact and I still see nothing that indicates anything else. Baptism is a symbol of burial. It is a sign that we are being buried with Christ. Water baptism is a clear sign of that and in the 1st century nobody questioned what people meant when they said baptism. When somebody said you needed to be baptized it was pretty universally understood that that meant getting dunked in water.
Baptism is ( Not a Symbol ) of anything!!! -- Read it again!!! It says, - "We (( "Are" buried )) ( With Him in Baptism )!!! - If that's a symbol, then Salvation is a symbol also, and so is the Resurrection!! - Baptism is the ((((( "FIRST RESURRECTION" ))))), and not a Symbol!!! --- You have committed it wrongly.
Paul -- 071812
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
It is funny how language that relates to Israel's experience and history becomes almost entirely unintelligible when ripped away from its context. Of course this decontextualization began long before the Pentecostal movement came around. The Church began to interpret baptism as a rite of passage that brings sinners into its own version of the "Kingdom of God" in a way that displaced Israel and her history, eventually leading the church down the very same road that recalcitrant Israel walked before it. The Pentecostals gained the very fodder they use today against the Catholic interpretation of baptism because the scriptures had been cut off from Israel by that very same Catholic Church (a process that did not begin with Pentecostalism but with the Roman Church in the West and its appropriation of Israel's heritage as its own). The Roman Church, instead of viewing itself as the unnatural Gentile branch that was grafted into the vine of Israel by the grace of God saw fit to ignore Israel's rightful place as the first inheritor of the Kingdom. In this way the Roman Church reinterpreted the lives of our Jewish founders as if they were Gentiles and thus replaced Israel with itself. If we are going to regain an appropriate understanding of baptism, we will need to restore Israel (especially the apostles and prophets) to their rightful place as members of the truly chosen people of God and through whom we Gentiles receive blessing only because of God's faithfulness to that people.
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