ReligionDiscuss General Theology, Religions and Denominations, God's Attributes, Predestination and Free Will, Dispensationalism, Eschatology, Philosophy, Origins, Archaeology, Science, World History and other such topics.
Slogan/motto:
"Most people are wrong. The world is stuffed with fools, which is why we must change it." -- the sorceror Camaban (c.2000 BCE)
Reputation:
June 2nd, 2012, 07:21 PM
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On 1June DAN P say: ... I will be happy to present Heb 6:6 and why Paul wrote it
If you think that Paulos wrote Hebrews, I seriously doubt that anything you might have to say about it would be of any interest to me ...
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as I believe other others have no " standing " at all , other than Paul , dan p
eh? "other others" ? What the heck does that mean? Are you saying that you simply cannot tolerate even the very possibility that someone other than Paulos might have written this very unpaulish and free-flowing theological-meditation on a variety of topics? ... wow
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority to set brush fires in people's minds." -- S. Adams
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
June 3rd, 2012, 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAN P
Hi , and if that is true , LETS write for all to see ??
Why , not start on Eph 2:5 and 8 , instead of just saying you do not believe OSAS and than RUN without any proof , dan p
If I take the whole counsel of the Word, I have to believe that these verses contradict OSAS.
Matthew 13:6 & Mark 4:6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away (many start out for Christ, but don’t last long and because of having no depth, persecutions soon caused them to fall by the wayside; all of this pertains to the presentation of the Gospel, and as obvious, completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
Ezekiel 33:12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of your people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turns from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sins (if the Believer turns from his righteousness and begins to live a life of sinning, and refuses to repent, he will die lost. Conversely, if the wicked individual quits his wickedness by turning to the Lord, his wickedness will not be remembered against him; therefore, this passage is a plain and clear rebuke to those who teach the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
Hosea 9:17 My God will cast them away, because they did not hearken unto Him: and they shall be wanderers among the nations (“My God will cast them away” refutes the unscriptural doctrine of Unconditional Eternal Security.)
Matthew 25:30 And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth (these individuals do not merely lose reward, but rather their souls; all of this completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
John 6:67 Then said Jesus unto the Twelve, Will you also go away? (Jesus’ question to the original twelve abrogates the doctrine of unconditional eternal security. In fact, Judas did go away.)
Isaiah 1:28 And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they who forsake the LORD shall be consumed. (This clearly refers to those who no longer have faith in the Lord, thereby rejecting Him, and doing so to the point of being destroyed. Men are warned not to forsake God [Deut. 12:19; 14:27]. This refutes the doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, my lord delays his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken (proclaims Believers who have ceased to believe and have, thereby, lost their way, which will ultimately conclude in the loss of their souls, if they do not repent (1 John 1:9); this completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
I Corinthians 6:9 Do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind (This shoots down the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
John 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on Him, If you continue in My Word, then are you My Disciples indeed (simply means that one has to believe all the Word, not just part, and then continue in that believing; regrettably, as the Parable of the Sower points out, many do not continue to believe; consequently, this refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
I Chronicles 28:9 And you, Solomon my son, know you the God of your father, and serve Him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searches all hearts, and understands all the imaginations of the thoughts: if you seek Him, He will be found of you; but if you forsake Him, He will cast you off for ever (this is one of the greatest promises found in the entirety of the Word of God. Irrespective of the disposition of the individual involved, if the person seeks the Lord with all his heart, the Lord will be found. What a consolation! Conversely, if we turn our back on the Lord, He will turn His back on us; consequently, this completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
Matthew 18:12 How do you think? if a man has an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, does he not leave the ninety and nine, and go into the mountains, and seeks that which is gone astray? (Proves that Believers can go astray and, therefore, refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
Exodus 32:11 And Moses besought the LORD his God, and said, LORD, why does Your wrath wax hot against Your people, which You have brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand? (All of these things, as wonderful as they were and, in a sense, is the same presently with every Believer, still, cannot condone sin. As should be obvious, this refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
I King14:9 But have done evil above all that were before you: for you have gone and made you other gods, and molten images, to provoke Me to anger, and have cast Me behind your back (it would seem from this statement that Jeroboam had once known the Lord in a very real way; he had received prophecies, and then was promised a sure house and a kingdom if he would obey; this dispute the fallacious doctrine of unconditional eternal security [Heb. 6:1–6; 10:26–31]):
Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, says the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion (this thrice repeated invitation has never yet been fully responded to by the Ten Tribes, but will be in the future, and then God will bring to Zion all who accept it. The statement, “I am married to the backslider,” is derived from this Verse. Here, Jehovah repeats His invitation, assuring Israel that He does not consider the marriage bonds broken. But yet, every indication is that unless they return, they will be eternally lost! This passage, therefore, destroys the erroneous idea of unconditional eternal security):
Matthew 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the House of Israel (notice the "lost sheep" which refutes unconditional eternal security).
Ezekiel 14:8 And I will set My face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of My people; and you shall know that I am the LORD (the threatenings in this prophecy are, in substance and language, all found in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. This passage completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security. “I will cut him off from the midst of My people,” says, at the same time, that for one to be “cut off,” one has to first of all be attached).
Psalm 51:11 Cast me not away from Your presence; and take not Your Holy Spirit from me (if sin is unconfessed and rebellion persists, God will ultimately “cast away” the individual “from His Presence.” He will also “take the Holy Spirit” from the person. This refutes the doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
Ezekiel 3:20 Again, When a righteous man does turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumblingblock before him, he shall die: because you have not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at your hand (the Preacher is not only to preach to the lost, but he is to also warn the righteous who turns from his righteousness. If the Preacher doesn’t do so, once again, even though that person will be lost, the Lord says, “I will require at your hand” that individual’s blood. How many modern Preachers are faithfully warning the wicked? The righteous? This passage lays to rest the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
Ezekiel 18:24 But when the righteous turns away from his righteousness, and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All his righteousness that he has done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he has trespassed, and in his sin that he has sinned, in them shall he die (as all sins are blotted out when one repents, likewise, all righteousness is blotted out if one ceases to have faith in Christ and what He has done at the Cross. This, thereby, completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security [Heb. 6:4–6; 10:26–29]).
Luke 14:28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, sits not down first, and counts the cost, whether he have sufficient to finish it? (This proclaims that the race must be finished, before it can be said to have been run. This completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security.)
Luke 8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away (completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).
I Corinthians 15:2 By which also you are saved, if ye keep in memory what I Preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain (this refers to believing at first and then drawing back, which will cause one to lose one’s soul. This also causes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security to fall to the ground).
If you think that Paulos wrote Hebrews, I seriously doubt that anything you might have to say about it would be of any interest to me ...
eh? "other others" ? What the heck does that mean? Are you saying that you simply cannot tolerate even the very possibility that someone other than Paulos might have written this very unpaulish and free-flowing theological-meditation on a variety of topics? ... wow
Hi , and Bob Hill himself rejects Paul as the writer and says that it could have been written by Apollos or Barnabas .
If Paul had written to GENTILES or to the Body of Christ , then Hebrews would then be CONTRADICTORY in nature .
Dr J Veron Megee is another one , that says , Paul could never have written Hebrews . I can tolerate your disagreement , dan p
Slogan/motto:
Ecclesiastes 1:9 ---
The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAN P
Hi, and what you have written is easily refuted,
Good for you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DAN P
but why not refute Eph 2:5 and 8 ?? I know why , you can not explain the Perfect Tense , passive and participle in verses 5 and 8 !! dan p
I have to agree with you here. I'm too stupid to explain Perfect Tense, Passive and Participle, however, I do know what the word "IF" means.
I have to agree with you here. I'm too stupid to explain Perfect Tense, Passive and Participle, however, I do know what the word "IF" means.
Hi , and go to the internet , and it is all there for all to learn from and you are not STUPID , just new what the Perfect , passive voice and participle means in Eph 2:5 and 8 and IF you do not want to learn , than you are stupid , dan p
Eph 2:5 is the conclusion of the New Birth which saved us even while being Dead in Sin by nature. The New Birth is an act of Sovereign Grace to those Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Eph 1:4 and Eph 1:3 being blessed with all spiritual blessings, which Eph 2:5 is, was according to that Election in Christ Eph 1:4 !
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Slogan/motto:
"Most people are wrong. The world is stuffed with fools, which is why we must change it." -- the sorceror Camaban (c.2000 BCE)
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 06:05 PM
Okay then ...
Why did Paulos write 'Hebrews' to non-gentiles in the common-greek script, dan?
Wouldn't Aramaic have been a much better choice for all the jewish-believers
among the various churches in the first-century?
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority to set brush fires in people's minds." -- S. Adams
Okay then ...
Why did Paulos write 'Hebrews' to non-gentiles in the common-greek script, dan?
Wouldn't Aramaic have been a much better choice for all the jewish-believers
among the various churches in the first-century?
Hi , and here is just a few arguments for Jews only and why it is Pauline written .
#1 , Paul wrote under the power of the Holy Spirit !
#2 , Paul is the Only Apostle to write that Israel was set aside !!
#3 , Heb 6:1 , all are to LEAVE or FORSAKE the teachings of Jesus !!
#4 , Heb 6:2 , FORSAKE BAPTISMS ,
#5 , Heb 6:1 FORSAKE REPENTANCE .
#6 , Heb 8:8 , speaks to the New Covenant given to Israel !!
#7 , Heb 9:15 , the cross paid for all the SINS committed by the Nation of Israel from the Time of Moses to the Cross !!
I have a ton of material written by ROBERT C BROCK in a verse by verse commentary , on Hebrews , dan p
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority to set brush fires in people's minds." -- S. Adams
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