Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 05:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
Ah, so then the born again does have a second nature after all?
Having the divine nature dwelling in us, does not make us into a God/man.
The divine nature lives in us as in through, by faith until the resurrection.
It is not ours for eternity until the resurrection, and as Jesus is still a man, He still has His own nature (spirit)transformed by the divine nature.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
Having the divine nature dwelling in us, does not make us into a God/man.
The divine nature lives in us as in through, by faith until the resurrection.
It is not ours for eternity until the resurrection, and as Jesus is still a man, He still has His own nature (spirit)transformed by the divine nature.
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
etc.
Pure, unadulterated Buddhism. The next sentence reveals that the reference is to the moral nature of God. It is not at all about His essence. We cannot be partakers of God's essence.
Your logic falls to the ground because the people believed that the Messiah was ETERNAL and therefore God, John 12:34. This is why some said He blasphemed for calling Himself the Messiah/Son of God.
That's exactly the verse I was looking for, but couldn't find. Thanks, bro.
Pure, unadulterated Buddhism. The next sentence reveals that the reference is to the moral nature of God. It is not at all about His essence. We cannot be partakers of God's essence.
Glorydaz, don't waste your time with this guy.
Yeah, it's a hopeless cause. Like talking to a brick wall.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 06:10 PM
By JW Wile Coyote.
Quote:
"God was reconciling the world to Himself on the basis of Christ" (George Smeaton).
The preposition "in" often means "on the basis of." Example, "This is the new testament in (on the basis of) my blood."
Wile hates the word "IN" like the JWs do who replaced the word "IN' with the word "with".
God was IN Christ.
So when Jesus said--
Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Wile says therefore that the Father was not really IN Christ but that God was on the basis of Christ.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 06:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
Yeah, it's a hopeless cause. Like talking to a brick wall.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
Mat 21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this stone shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it will grind him to powder.
LA
You do realize, don't you, that you are one who falls on that stone? This refers to the "stone of stumbling" which was "God with us" (Immanuel). Which Isaiah says is the Lord of Hosts, Himself. If you dare read the verses posted here, you will see you count among those who rejected the Lord of Hosts when He appeared and walked among us.
Matt. 1:22-23
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 8:8
And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Isaiah 8:10-14
Take counsel together, and it shall come to nought; speak the word, and it shall not stand: for God is with us. For the LORD spake thus to me with a strong hand, and instructed me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying, Say ye not, A confederacy, to all them to whom this people shall say, A confederacy; neither fear ye their fear, nor be afraid. Sanctify the LORD of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
1 Peter 2:7-8
Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
You do realize, don't you, that you are one who falls on that stone? This refers to the "stone of stumbling" which was "God with us" (Immanuel). Which Isaiah says is the Lord of Hosts, Himself. If you dare read the verses posted here, you will see you count among those who rejected the Lord of Hosts when He appeared and walked among us.
Slogan/motto:
Mat 7:12 Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
Reputation:
June 4th, 2012, 09:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by glorydaz
You do realize, don't you, that you are one who falls on that stone? This refers to the "stone of stumbling" which was "God with us" (Immanuel). Which Isaiah says is the Lord of Hosts, Himself. If you dare read the verses posted here, you will see you count among those who rejected the Lord of Hosts when He appeared and walked among us.
Well thank you.
I fell upon the stone and the Lord saved me. It is better than the stone falling on one and being ground to powder.
Quote:
Matt. 1:22-23
Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
It does not say Jesus is God the second person of the trinity does it?
I fell upon the stone and the Lord saved me. It is better than the stone falling on one and being ground to powder.
It does not say Jesus is God the second person of the trinity does it?
LA
The deity of Christ is not something you should deny just because it's included in some particular doctrine.
Confessing that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, though, is an essential for salvation. We all know what John means when he says that. He's made it abundantly clear from the beginning. God became flesh and dwelt among us. If we deny that, we deny Christ...which make us antichrist.
It was a sign from the Lord that a virgin should give birth...His name is Immanuel (God with us). He did not become God at His baptism, but at His birth. A virgin having a son....God with us.
Isaiah 7:14
Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Having the divine nature dwelling in us, does not make us into a God/man.
You go too far. I didn't say it did. We were merely speaking of how many natures a person has or can have.
Quote:
The divine nature lives in us as in through, by faith until the resurrection.
So what happened to our old nature__assuming our soul can only have one residing in it?
Quote:
It is not ours for eternity until the resurrection, and as Jesus is still a man, He still has His own nature (spirit)transformed by the divine nature.
The bible says we [those of Christ Jesus] are sealed. In your estimation, does that not make it permanent now that we not have to wait for the resurrection?
Quote:
2Pe 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ:
2Pe 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,
2Pe 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:
2Pe 1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.
2Pe 1:5 And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge;
At the resurrection, lust-corruption will be a non-issue. Therefore, escaping anything it has to do with doing it now that there be no issue[s] at that point in time.
"Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently" 1 Peter 1:22 (KJV)
When Jesus was transfigured, at that point it time, He had completed all the work His Father gave Him to do. In His mission, He never wavered in His disposition and by that same [sustained] disposition stepped over into glory without a resurrection. In other words, we can see to understand that the man Jesus, at His birth, was given a divine Nature to protect. He was taught how to do that. By His love and allegiance to His Father, He was successful. Upon His death and resurrection, His disposition was ordained to be imputed to be the mainstay by which, by learning His divine Nature, the new born of Him would have the same success. That is all for now, LA. Not later.
By His Life in us, purifying ourselves and by that are we protecting His Glorious gift, is given to us do, this side of eternity. Satan wants to get at that gift to destroy it. The only way he can is through our flesh. We are given to overcome him by the blood of the lamb and the Word of our testimony of Jesus Christ.
LA, I don't know if I have captured all of what you have been intending to convey but, I have replied thinking I have or am. Help me out here if I missed anything.
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
We can forgive what someone has done to us, but we cannot erase the penalty of sin for someone else. That can only be done when one comes by faith to Yahu"shua. (See? I'm trying to get used to calling Him by His correct name.) But, we are not the High Priest that must sprinkle the blood on the Mercy Seat. That power to forgive sins is not for the followers. The Power is in the preaching of the Gospel message. As we preach the Word, the way to forgiveness of sins is found there.
No, but the power to tell them IS. The trouble is that what is being told to people is that they are forgiven, but have no need for repentance, and if they are told to repent, they are not told the truth as to what to repent for. Now, if as you say, The Word was actually what was preached, then I could agree wholeheartedly. But it is not.
So people have to be told the truth first, then they know to repent for "sin" which IS violating the Torah of Yahuweh. But they are not told this. But they sure expect to be forgiven...but then they continue to violate His Torah...His "Appointed times" and His Sabbath, etc.
As to further thought, I agree with SRIPTURE, NOT WITH TRADITIONS OF MEN.
"preach REPENTANCE, and forgiveness. If forgiveness was the priority, then repentance would not have been laid out first. Repentance is of the utmost priority because without it, there is no forgiveness. People are not told that. And they never get an understanding of what is meant by "you will not rob Yahuweh". It is up to His People, before His return, to "RESTORE", and that understanding must be foremost. Which is why we read, that those who do not turn from their wicked ways, which again, are their ways of violating HIS TORAH (it never belonged to "Jews"), CAN NOT BE SAVED. Yahu'Shua died to get us to "go back" to "repent" to "SHUV", which is, to return back to the Torah of Yahuweh, and lay down the traditions of men that had infiltrated and perpetrated the True Torah of Yah, "making the Word of NONE EFFECT".
As to forgiving others, it is always Yah who does the forgiving, we are to learn to forgive AS HE DOES...
James 5:13-20 Is any of you suffering evil? Let him pray. Is anyone in good spirits? Let him sing psalms. Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the assembly, and let them pray over him, having anointed him with oil in the Name of the Master. And the prayer of the belief shall save the sick, and the Master shall raise him up. And if he has committed sins, he shall be forgiven. Confess your trespasses to one another, and pray for one another, so that you are healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous one accomplishes much. Ěliyahu was a man with feelings like us, and he prayed earnestly that it would not rain. And it did not rain on the land for three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the heaven gave rain, and the land brought forth its fruit. Brothers, if anyone among you goes astray from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the straying of his way shall save a life from death and cover a great number of sins.
Do you get my drift now?
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
No, but the power to tell them IS. The trouble is that what is being told to people is that they are forgiven, but have no need for repentance, and if they are told to repent, they are not told the truth as to what to repent for. Now, if as you say, The Word was actually what was preached, then I could agree wholeheartedly. But it is not.
So people have to be told the truth first, then they know to repent for "sin" which IS violating the Torah of Yahuweh. But they are not told this. But they sure expect to be forgiven...but then they continue to violate His Torah...His "Appointed times" and His Sabbath, etc.
If you say the Torah is the Tree of Life then you are basing your whole argument on a false notion, an incomplete idea of truth, and trying to persuade others to follow you..
Slogan/motto:
“You do not bring the Name of יהוה (Yahuweh) your Elohim to naught, for יהוה (Yahuweh) does not leave the one unpunished who brings His Name to naught."
If you say the Torah is the Tree of Life then you are basing your whole argument on a false notion, an incomplete idea of truth, and trying to persuade others to follow you..
Well then I won't say that. Can't tell the truth if you keep on putting words in other peoples mouths. The WORD MADE FLESH...is TORAH MADE FLESH. You might have a clue if you even had a clue as to what Torah is, what it contains, why we were to learn the "shadows" and what is going on today. Torah of Yah is alive and well, and doing ALL it said was to be. If your eyes don't see, then maybe YOU ought to "repent and turn from YOUR WICKED WAYS to BE saved. Because if you have not...YOU lie to YOURSELF. But you can no longer lie to me. TORAH OF YAH IS TRUTH, and if "they don't speak according to" TORAH OF YAHUWEH...THERE IS NO LIGHT IN THEM, and that does mean, that the light of Messiah is not found in you. Go lie to someone who has no ears for Yahu'Shua, you can do it to me no matter how much you "believed the lie". And the lie was sent, because of what is written in Jeremiah chapter 6, as has been laid in front of your blind eyes many many times..."so man will have no excuse".
So keep making excuses not to obey Yah and HIS TORAH, and you will find yourself, as Yahu'Shua said He would do, He said "I will vomit them out". It is "manmade traditions" that "made the Word of none effect" it is obeying Torah of Yah as H said to, which holds all things together...and as matter of fact, is exactly why all things must fall apart...BECAUSE THEY SAY WE DO NOT LISTEN!
Go for it, keep it up, what I ain't going to listen to...IS YOU. One day soon you are going to see yourself condemning HIS TORAH, and be able to see the look on His face! That is NOT the look I want to see. Especially when He tells you that becuase of your stance, any and all supposed good works that you thought you did, have no value, becuase you did not obey HIM. Now go look up "stripes" in the New Testament, and find out WHY people WILL GET either "few" of them, or "many" of them. I already know. Been trying to tell folks like you. To return "to that first love" which is so stated in Psalms 119, but you have no idea what that is.
And to put me down for "do"ing "the Father's Desires"? Well, that may just follow you as one of your deeds. "least in the Kingdom of Heaven"??? What is that for eh?
1) Not obeying TORAH OF YAH.
2) Teaching others to do so also.
Not a good stance whatsoever, and those ain't the clothes to be worn at His Wedding! Get the wax (traditions) out of your ears, and you might get your hearing back. Right now, the Word you read has "none effect" and it is because you lie when you say you believe it. I'm telling you the TRUTH of the matter. Take it, or leave it, your blood isn't on my hands anymore, I told you true.
Saying I am trying to get folks to follow me is another fabrication! How many times have I said, "if they do not speak according to this Torah there is no light in them"??? I quoted Isaiah. And that is where I send all others. Follow the Messiah, HE OBEYED TORAH and said FOLLOW ME. But "ye would not". And you are doing exactly what you are trying to say I am doing, but I have not. LIAR.
YeshaYahu (Isaiah) 8:20: To the Torah and to the witness! If they do not speak according to this Word, it is because they have no daybreak.
1st Kepha (Peter) 4:11: If anyone speaks, let it be as the Words of Elohim. If anyone serves, let it be as with the strength which Elohim provides, so that Elohim might be praised in it all through יהושע (Yahu'Shua) Messiah, to whom belong the esteem and the rule forever and ever. Amĕn.
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