i probably would NOT be a Christian if the Bible was all i had...
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Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
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June 20th, 2012, 10:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
how does this psg contradict the notion that the Church is ALSO suffient? It doesn't... soemthing ELSE the Bible does not say... but it is true nonetheless... The Bible doesn't say a lot of things that are true. All truth cannot be placed into a small book... and the bible is nothing but small in comparison to all the truth there is in the world/universe...
in any case, this pssg does not say that the Bible is the ONLY
thing sufficient..
all it says is that it is suffient for teaching... for bringing one to a knowledge of salvation
The Bible is incomplete and was NEVER meant to be ALL a Christain has
if that were true, Jesus would have said to the Apostles: Write down my words and spread them to the whole world.
If he did say such a thing, it is NOT written in the Bible... which would disclaim YOUR doctrine right there... sola scriptura
He said to PREACH the Word... and baptize (Mt 28)
there was no written New T for at least 40 yrs after the Ascension
and even then there were no bibles as we know them today... the printing press not having been invented until 1440
no Christians until then?
The apostles were personally traveling around at that point, and they had written letters to congregations that were read aloud and passed around.
But than again, I think the scriptures are nice, but unnecessary if you truly are a christian.
When you consider that it is scriptures that truly have divided Christianty... things need to be rethought about the christian life.
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
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June 20th, 2012, 10:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
all it says is that it is suffient for teaching... for bringing one to a knowledge of salvation
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
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June 20th, 2012, 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaulToPaul
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
aren't u one of those osasers??? eternal securtiy
you dont want to be bringing up this one, then... it mentions WORKS
This psg says MAY be perfect
If all one had were the Bible
he COULD, conceivably, become "pefect" as far as... avoiding Hell
but again, God wanted people to have MORE than... just avoiding Hell... Not too many avoid Purgatory... Only the saints managed to do that.. and of course there are more saints than just the ones who happend to be canonized...
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
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June 20th, 2012, 10:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
i read this because there was no ad hominem... or etc...
i have no argument...
so... uh..
maybe i didn't fully u/stand???
i mean you know... since you seem to like to start arguments???
hmmm.... just wondering...
I think a persons behavior speaks louder than their words when it comes to determining who is and who is not a christian.
When an officer of a 'church' whether Protestant or Catholic dishonors God through their actions, they should willingly, quickly and publicly step down from their position of authority.
Remember, officers of the church are supposed to have a spotless reputation both inside and OUTSIDE of the church.
Location: Somewhere out there beneath the pale moonlight.
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Atheist
Pinko Commie
Slogan/motto:
Really?
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June 20th, 2012, 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
If the Bible is of divine origin, then its meaning should be self-evident; interpretation should be unnecessary.
"The more scientifically literate, intellectually honest and objectively skeptical a person is, the more likely they are to disbelieve in anything supernatural, including god."
Slogan/motto:
Ephesians 3:9: "And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:"
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June 20th, 2012, 11:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TruthSetsFree
Prfect for WHAT?
2 Tim 3:16-17 (KJV)
"the man of God"
what more does he need?
1. Land forever. Gen 17:8 (KJV)
2. City FROM heaven. Rev 21:2 (KJV)
3. Heavenly places. Eph 2:6-7(KJV)
Don't mix them, leavening the whole household of God. Luke 13:21 (KJV)
with all the inconsistencies and seeming contradictions in the Bible
and all the different interpretations in the nonCatholic realm...
i would say that "Christianity" is too contradictory, illogical... divisive...
for me to accept
Thank GOD
there is the Church
The bible outside the context of the Church that produced it
is like a fish out of water
we all know how long the fish will last outside of water...
The roman catholic church didn't produce the bible. The old testament was complete long before the new testament books were put together.
Christ Himself quoted the breadth of them as well - clearly showing the correct old testament scriptures didn't include the catholic apocrypha either.
Christ stated :
Luke 11:48 In fact, you bear witness that you approve the deeds of your fathers; for they indeed killed them, and you build their tombs. 49 Therefore the wisdom of God also said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, and some of them they will kill and persecute,’ 50 that the blood of all the prophets which was shed from the foundation of the world may be required of this generation, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah who perished between the altar and the temple. Yes, I say to you, it shall be required of this generation.
52 “Woe to you lawyers! For you have taken away the key of knowledge. You did not enter in yourselves, and those who were entering in you hindered.”
Christ called the old testament scriptures the key of knowledge. He also cited the entire breadth in the hebrew division of those books, which starts in genesis (blood of abel) to 2 Chronicles.
The hebrew division of the ot scriptures ends with 2 chronicles but carries all the same identical books that protestants use today - the books are just arranged differently and we divide a couple books into 2 parts where theirs kept them as one.
Quote:
he Tanakh consists of twenty-four books: it counts as one book each Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah and counts Trei Asar (תרי עשר, the Twelve Prophets; literally "twelve") as a single book.
Most versions of the Christian Old Testament count Samuel, Kings, Chronicles and Ezra-Nehemiah as two books each, and the "Twelve Prophets" (or the minor prophets) as 12 books, giving rise to a count of 39 books for the Old Testament.
For more information on the hebrew scripture division:
I would not be a christian if I had to live under the catachism. The bible alone bends towards grace and I think thats what catholics hate. I personally could not live under a draconian dictatorship.
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Atheist
More right than left
Slogan/motto:
"Do what thou wilt" shall be the hole in the floor.
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June 20th, 2012, 10:01 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lighthouse
Except that people are ignorant and want to interpret any message from God because they don't want to believe He could be straightforward because we'd be "too lowly to understand Him." They want to treat it like art, as though it's valid to say it has a different meaning for every person.
Divine revelation should be able to surpass any ignorance, and have the exact same meaning for every person exposed to it, whether directly or otherwise.
Sort of like two plus two always equaling four, to an infinite number of decimal places.
"If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker that came along would destroy civilization."
If the Bible is of divine origin, then its meaning should be self-evident; interpretation should be unnecessary.
Sounds good untill one discovers that there are different languages all over the world.
Outside of that though, its pretty self evident if one reads it.
God defines sin - sin separates man from God, God wants relationship with man, so God provides a savior. Man either chooses to remain separated or enter into offered relationship.
b4 i entered the Catholic Church... but technically i never left... just ignorantly fell away, wasn't catechized..
i was really ... uh... lost & etc..
i still have moments of "lostness".. Everyone does (esp when outside the Church)
but...
Jesus helps people
he isn't like humans who kick people when they're down
and so i will always be thankful for his Church
dont' know where i would be
who i would be
if i had not been raised (@ least somewhat)Catholic
if everything in my life had been virtually the same except that i hadn't been raised C
well... let's just put it in understatement terms
it would not have been good... (god knows what i mean)
but again... words can never say... so i will not try to make them say...
Seriously, seek professional help; of the psychiatric variety.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerald
Divine revelation should be able to surpass any ignorance, and have the exact same meaning for every person exposed to it, whether directly or otherwise.
Sort of like two plus two always equaling four, to an infinite number of decimal places.
Let me rephrase, people are wilfully ignorant. They don't want to hear what God has to say and He won't force Himself on anyone.
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