[Colossians]

This work may be quoted within the thread, but may not be reproduced outside the thread without the express permission of the author.




_______________________________________________


THE 1000-YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST


“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.” Heb 10:12,13

Here Hebrews tells us that Christ is not coming back until all His enemies are made His footstool (until all enemies are put under His feet).




“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” 1 Cor 15:25

Here 1 Corinthians tells us that He reigns while His enemies are not under His feet.




And so we understand from the combination of Heb 10:12,13 and 1 Cor 15:25 that the only time that Christ reigns is when His enemies are not under His feet (for else there were no point in reigning: you don’t need to reign when everyone agrees with you), and that given that His enemies are not all under His feet now, it is now that He reigns.

And this is why He is seated on the throne. He reigns from heaven.

So:

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Mt 28:18




Now why do many think He doesn't reign right now?

Two reasons:

1. They don't know the scriptures
2. They think that His reign will be carnally-delineated.

In regard to (1), we have shown above what they have missed.

In regard to (2), they have missed this:

"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" Lk 17:20

But even if they had not missed Lk 17:20, they would nevertheless ignore it. For they simply can't perceive that He reigns now, for it has not yet been revealed to them by the Spirit: they are yet largely carnal, so carnal in fact that you will notice that they are not the least bit envious or even curious as to why many declare that He reigns right now.




So what does the 1000 years stand for?

Well simply a perfect time, and a perfect timing, and a perfect reign. Christ reigns for '1000 years' in the life of every believer. And when the '1000 years' are finished in each believer's life, the believer goes home to be with the Lord, to declare along with Paul:

"O death, where is thy sting?" 1 Cor 15:55

In other words, death shall then in no uncertain terms, be "under His feet".

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." 1 Cor 15:26





Let's go through it again

1. What does the bible say that Christ is doing now in heaven?

Answer: Waiting until His enemies are put under His feet. (Heb 10:12,13)



2. When does the bible say Christ reigns?

Answer: When His enemies are not yet under His feet. (1 Cor 15:25)



3. Therefore, when does Christ reign?

Answer: Now



4. Where does He reign from?

Answer: Heaven (specifically, the right hand of God). (Heb 10:12,13)



5. What happens when His enemies are put under His feet?

Answer: He will subject Himself to the Father (He will hand the kingdom back to the Father). (1 Cor 15:28)



6. What do we call the 'time' at which all things will have been put under Christ's feet and at which Christ will Himself be subject to the Father?

Answer: "The end". (1 Cor 15:24)





Summary

Christ reigns from heaven right now, and will do so until the Father puts all things under His feet.

Christ's return will therefore be commensurate with His making Himself subject to the Father ("that God may be all in all") and His destruction of the physical realm as per 2 Pe 3:10,11,12.

The spiritual realm shall then be revealed, and will be the only realm for eternity. There will be no time in that realm, nor corporeality: it is a different dimension, and one far more glorious than the physical.

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by Colossians

This work may be quoted within the thread, but may not be reproduced outside the thread without the express permission of the author.




_______________________________________________


THE 1000-YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST


“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.” Heb 10:12,13

Here Hebrews tells us that Christ is not coming back until all His enemies are made His footstool (until all enemies are put under His feet).




“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” 1 Cor 15:25

Here 1 Corinthians tells us that He reigns while His enemies are not under His feet.




And so we understand from the combination of Heb 10:12,13 and 1 Cor 15:25 that the only time that Christ reigns is when His enemies are not under His feet (for else there were no point in reigning: you don’t need to reign when everyone agrees with you), and that given that His enemies are not all under His feet now, it is now that He reigns.

And this is why He is seated on the throne. He reigns from heaven.

So:

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Mt 28:18




Now why do many think He doesn't reign right now?

Two reasons:

1. They don't know the scriptures
2. They think that His reign will be carnally-delineated.

In regard to (1), we have shown above what they have missed.

In regard to (2), they have missed this:

"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" Lk 17:20

But even if they had not missed Lk 17:20, they would nevertheless ignore it. For they simply can't perceive that He reigns now, for it has not yet been revealed to them by the Spirit: they are yet largely carnal, so carnal in fact that you will notice that they are not the least bit envious or even curious as to why many declare that He reigns right now.




So what does the 1000 years stand for?

Well simply a perfect time, and a perfect timing, and a perfect reign. Christ reigns for '1000 years' in the life of every believer. And when the '1000 years' are finished in each believer's life, the believer goes home to be with the Lord, to declare along with Paul:

"O death, where is thy sting?" 1 Cor 15:55

In other words, death shall then in no uncertain terms, be "under His feet".

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." 1 Cor 15:26





Let's go through it again

1. What does the bible say that Christ is doing now in heaven?

Answer: Waiting until His enemies are put under His feet. (Heb 10:12,13)



2. When does the bible say Christ reigns?

Answer: When His enemies are not yet under His feet. (1 Cor 15:25)



3. Therefore, when does Christ reign?

Answer: Now



4. Where does He reign from?

Answer: Heaven (specifically, the right hand of God). (Heb 10:12,13)



5. What happens when His enemies are put under His feet?

Answer: He will subject Himself to the Father (He will hand the kingdom back to the Father). (1 Cor 15:28)



6. What do we call the 'time' at which all things will have been put under Christ's feet and at which Christ will Himself be subject to the Father?

Answer: "The end". (1 Cor 15:24)





Summary

Christ reigns from heaven right now, and will do so until the Father puts all things under His feet.

Christ's return will therefore be commensurate with His making Himself subject to the Father ("that God may be all in all") and His destruction of the physical realm as per 2 Pe 3:10,11,12.

The spiritual realm shall then be revealed, and will be the only realm for eternity. There will be no time in that realm, nor corporeality: it is a different dimension, and one far more glorious than the physical.

This post may be quoted within the thread, but may not be reproduced outside the thread without the express permission of the author.


Christ is now reigning over His Elect, but He is yet to reign over the nations with the resurrected saints--

Dan 7:27 And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey him.


The last enemy which is death is not destroyed until the last judgment of Rev.ch 20.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Presently, death is destroyed only for Christ and those joined to Him, faithful unto their deaths from this life.

Joh 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:


1Co 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57 But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
1Co 15:24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
1Co 15:25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
1Co 15:26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

LA

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Colossians

This work may be quoted within the thread, but may not be reproduced outside the thread without the express permission of the author.




_______________________________________________


THE 1000-YEAR REIGN OF CHRIST


“But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.” Heb 10:12,13

Here Hebrews tells us that Christ is not coming back until all His enemies are made His footstool (until all enemies are put under His feet).




“For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.” 1 Cor 15:25

Here 1 Corinthians tells us that He reigns while His enemies are not under His feet.




And so we understand from the combination of Heb 10:12,13 and 1 Cor 15:25 that the only time that Christ reigns is when His enemies are not under His feet (for else there were no point in reigning: you don’t need to reign when everyone agrees with you), and that given that His enemies are not all under His feet now, it is now that He reigns.

And this is why He is seated on the throne. He reigns from heaven.

So:

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.” Mt 28:18




Now why do many think He doesn't reign right now?

Two reasons:

1. They don't know the scriptures
2. They think that His reign will be carnally-delineated.

In regard to (1), we have shown above what they have missed.

In regard to (2), they have missed this:

"The kingdom of God cometh not with observation" Lk 17:20

But even if they had not missed Lk 17:20, they would nevertheless ignore it. For they simply can't perceive that He reigns now, for it has not yet been revealed to them by the Spirit: they are yet largely carnal, so carnal in fact that you will notice that they are not the least bit envious or even curious as to why many declare that He reigns right now.




So what does the 1000 years stand for?

Well simply a perfect time, and a perfect timing, and a perfect reign. Christ reigns for '1000 years' in the life of every believer. And when the '1000 years' are finished in each believer's life, the believer goes home to be with the Lord, to declare along with Paul:

"O death, where is thy sting?" 1 Cor 15:55

In other words, death shall then in no uncertain terms, be "under His feet".

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." 1 Cor 15:26





Let's go through it again

1. What does the bible say that Christ is doing now in heaven?

Answer: Waiting until His enemies are put under His feet. (Heb 10:12,13)



2. When does the bible say Christ reigns?

Answer: When His enemies are not yet under His feet. (1 Cor 15:25)



3. Therefore, when does Christ reign?

Answer: Now



4. Where does He reign from?

Answer: Heaven (specifically, the right hand of God). (Heb 10:12,13)



5. What happens when His enemies are put under His feet?

Answer: He will subject Himself to the Father (He will hand the kingdom back to the Father). (1 Cor 15:28)



6. What do we call the 'time' at which all things will have been put under Christ's feet and at which Christ will Himself be subject to the Father?

Answer: "The end". (1 Cor 15:24)





Summary

Christ reigns from heaven right now, and will do so until the Father puts all things under His feet.

Christ's return will therefore be commensurate with His making Himself subject to the Father ("that God may be all in all") and His destruction of the physical realm as per 2 Pe 3:10,11,12.

The spiritual realm shall then be revealed, and will be the only realm for eternity. There will be no time in that realm, nor corporeality: it is a different dimension, and one far more glorious than the physical.

I pretty much agree, except the 1000 years is the entire church age....from the Cross to His return. Death is put under His feet when the resurrection of the dead is complete and those who remain are changed.

[Lazy afternoon]

Originally Posted by glorydaz

I pretty much agree, except the 1000 years is the entire church age....from the Cross to His return. Death is put under His feet when the resurrection of the dead is complete and those who remain are changed.

So the nations do not learn war now, the Lords name is the only one, and His spirit covers the earth as the waters of the sea, and all nations seek the Lord in Jerusalem.

If JohnW hears of this he will give you a right pasting.


Here are the conditions of Christ's reign--

Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
Psa 72:8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psa 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psa 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.


LA

[Colossians]

Glorydaz,

I pretty much agree, except the 1000 years is the entire church age
This is the traditional a-millenial view (I am an a-millenialist), however it is not comprehensively correct, but is a little too simplistic.

For although they only exist for about 70 years before they expire and go to be with the Lord, the parts of the Body on earth (which we are) are by definition co-extensive with the entire Body across the ages, and this by reason of the type which represents that Body.

That is, inasmuch as the parts of our own physical bodies live for as long as our whole physical bodies live (our head lives as long as our heart, and the both are concurrent), by definition the part which each of us is of the Body of Christ is fully coextensive with the entire church age: the substance which is the church Body, together with its internal interdependencies, is understood by the type which is our physical bodies.

Further, the 'church age' is really a misnomer, for the church existed in the OT too, just not according to physical assembly or knowledge. Abraham, whose children we are, was in the church. It was just that the church was not realised as a corporate body back then on earth; but it was nevertheless assembling together spirtually, which is why Enoch went up to heaven without seeing physical death, and why also Moses stood speaking to Christ at the transfiguration.

Thus Moses is said to have preferred "the reproaches of Christ" to the riches of Egypt: Moses knew Christ personally, and was born again.

So then Hebrews tells us that we have come "to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven", where this "written in heaven" necessarily includes David, Abraham, etc, and by virtue of which we understand that the "general assembly", which is the church, is not epoch-dependent, but is primarily defined in the spiritual realm.

Accordingly we note that the disciples were assembled together in the upper room, in prayer, and as a church, before Pentecost.

So what I am saying is that the final putting of death under Christ's feet (the final consummation of all things), is coextensive with the final putting of death under Christ's feet for each and every believer severally. For the Body is one, and indivisible.


So the 1000-year reign can be thought of from different perspectives:

1. The realised-church age (this is the traditional a-millenial view)

2. All ages combined (in that the effect of the Cross is retrospective: David was born again). So this includes both the realised-church age together with the OT era which is the unrealised-church age.

3. The lifespan of each and every believer on an individual basis, regardless of epoch.


In a nutshell, just as Christ's reign is from heaven, so those who reign with Him reign from heaven, which is in accord with our being told by Paul that we are now (in our spirits) "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". And because there is no beginning and end in heaven (no time), it is necessarily the case that the earthly lifespan of each believer, which is that which facilitates the characterisation of his eternal existence in Christ outside of time, is necessarily coextensive with the entire reign of Christ and the entire reign of all in Christ, whenever they might live in the history of the earth. For Christ who now reigns from heaven as a spirit is the same Christ who came to earth in the flesh: His reign from heaven is no greater than, but is rather commensurate with, the ministry He had on earth: His 33 years on earth was, in spiritual substance, the millenial reign.

[Totton Linnet]

We have never said that Christ does not now reign.

We say that His kingdom is not yet come as He taught us to pray "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven"

We never thought that anyone other than Jahweh God reigned at any time, if God blesses a person or a people because they obey Him...He is reigning in those lives. If God curses or punishes a person or people because they disobey Him...He is reigning in those lives.

God has always governed this world through His people, He reigned in the matter of Sodom and Gamorrah on behalf of Lot.

You have not studied the scriptures well concerning the time when Christ will rule the nations through Israel for sin is not yet done away during that dispensation or death or hell....it is impossible to teach you because you are old and grumpy and won't be told.

Next you will say there is no gathering to meet the Lord....there is, but that is not the end of the world but the end of this present age. There is yet a world age to come.

Paul said the creation is to be set free from it's bondage to decay, it is yearning, it is groaning and we with it to be released for 5 minutes? a week? no but for a thousand years.

Christ reign is at present a mystery [only we know it] then it will be manifest as Peter and Paul teach and the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

Glory to God, hallelujah, praise His holy name.

[SaulToPaul]

Originally Posted by Totton Linnet

We have never said that Christ does not now reign.

We say that His kingdom is not yet come as He taught us to pray "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven"

We never thought that anyone other than Jahweh God reigned at any time, if God blesses a person or a people because they obey Him...He is reigning in those lives. If God curses or punishes a person or people because they disobey Him...He is reigning in those lives.

God has always governed this world through His people, He reigned in the matter of Sodom and Gamorrah on behalf of Lot.

You have not studied the scriptures well concerning the time when Christ will rule the nations through Israel for sin is not yet done away during that dispensation or death or hell....it is impossible to teach you because you are old and grumpy and won't be told.

Next you will say there is no gathering to meet the Lord....there is, but that is not the end of the world but the end of this present age. There is yet a world age to come.

Paul said the creation is to be set free from it's bondage to decay, it is yearning, it is groaning and we with it to be released for 5 minutes? a week? no but for a thousand years.

Christ reign is at present a mystery [only we know it] then it will be manifest as Peter and Paul teach and the glory of the knowledge of the Lord will cover the earth as the waters cover the sea.

Glory to God, hallelujah, praise His holy name.

Yes, dearest Tottykins

He comes in judgment (Rev 19) before the 1000 years (Rev 20). And, after the 1000 years, the last enemy is destroyed which is death (Rev 20).

Then, the kingdom is delivered unto the Father (1 Cor 15), and there is a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21-22).



If we don't believe this simple outline, or are adamant about sticking to our church's statement of faith, we can spiritualize the 1000 years and make a mockery of it all.





*This post may not be reproduced or retransmitted without the express written consent of Major League Baseball.

[Totton Linnet]

Beloved STP we agree broadly about the mill. We see a resurrection in 19, this is the resurrection of the just, in 20 [speaking of that great multitude] the Revelator says the devil is bound and thrones set up and those seated thereon given authority to judge, also the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony to Jesus and for the word of God...they reign with Christ for 1,000 years.

In the second part of 20 after the 1,000 years devil is let loosed to decieve the nations [who during the mill had been driven to the 4 corners of the earth] once more. The devil, the beast, and the false prophet are destroyed.

Then comes the resurrection unto judgement.

The first resurrection of Revelations therefore is the gathering, "so shall we always be with the Lord" in my humble onion
*
My humble onion may not be quoted in any other thread.

[chrysostom]

thank you for another chance to say
where does it say 'reign of Christ'?
and
we all know it says they will 'reign with Christ'
and
we all know that whenever two or more are gathered in His name
He will be there with them
so
let's look at the Byzantine Empire were a whole lot of Christians gathered in His name for over 1000 years
and
made the world safe for Christians

[SaulToPaul]

Originally Posted by Totton Linnet

*
My humble onion may not be quoted in any other thread.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Lazy afternoon

So the nations do not learn war now, the Lords name is the only one, and His spirit covers the earth as the waters of the sea, and all nations seek the Lord in Jerusalem.

If JohnW hears of this he will give you a right pasting.


Here are the conditions of Christ's reign--
Psa 72:6 He shall come down like rain upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth.
Psa 72:7 In his days shall the righteous flourish; and abundance of peace so long as the moon endureth.
Psa 72:8 He shall have dominion also from sea to sea, and from the river unto the ends of the earth.
Psa 72:9 They that dwell in the wilderness shall bow before him; and his enemies shall lick the dust.
Psa 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of the isles shall bring presents: the kings of Sheba and Seba shall offer gifts.
Psa 72:11 Yea, all kings shall fall down before him: all nations shall serve him.


LA

But He reigns now...and MUST reign until the last enemy is destroyed.

1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


As far as John W goes....I think he only "pastes" those who make certain claims and insist they're right. I'm not making any "inspired" claims concerning the end of days. I've looked at both ends and the middle, and still don't know for sure what will happen.

Since the Kingdom will be eternal, I think the 1000 years is the time between the cross and His second coming. I know some wouldn't agree that satan is bound right now, but I think he is....he can only go so far and no farther. But, that's another topic altogether.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Colossians

Glorydaz,

I pretty much agree, except the 1000 years is the entire church age
This is the traditional a-millenial view (I am an a-millenialist), however it is not comprehensively correct, but is a little too simplistic.

For although they only exist for about 70 years before they expire and go to be with the Lord, the parts of the Body on earth (which we are) are by definition co-extensive with the entire Body across the ages, and this by reason of the type which represents that Body.

That is, inasmuch as the parts of our own physical bodies live for as long as our whole physical bodies live (our head lives as long as our heart, and the both are concurrent), by definition the part which each of us is of the Body of Christ is fully coextensive with the entire church age: the substance which is the church Body, together with its internal interdependencies, is understood by the type which is our physical bodies.

Further, the 'church age' is really a misnomer, for the church existed in the OT too, just not according to physical assembly or knowledge. Abraham, whose children we are, was in the church. It was just that the church was not realised as a corporate body back then on earth; but it was nevertheless assembling together spirtually, which is why Enoch went up to heaven without seeing physical death, and why also Moses stood speaking to Christ at the transfiguration.

Thus Moses is said to have preferred "the reproaches of Christ" to the riches of Egypt: Moses knew Christ personally, and was born again.

So then Hebrews tells us that we have come "to the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven", where this "written in heaven" necessarily includes David, Abraham, etc, and by virtue of which we understand that the "general assembly", which is the church, is not epoch-dependent, but is primarily defined in the spiritual realm.

Accordingly we note that the disciples were assembled together in the upper room, in prayer, and as a church, before Pentecost.

So what I am saying is that the final putting of death under Christ's feet (the final consummation of all things), is coextensive with the final putting of death under Christ's feet for each and every believer severally. For the Body is one, and indivisible.


So the 1000-year reign can be thought of from different perspectives:

1. The realised-church age (this is the traditional a-millenial view)

2. All ages combined (in that the effect of the Cross is retrospective: David was born again). So this includes both the realised-church age together with the OT era which is the unrealised-church age.

3. The lifespan of each and every believer on an individual basis, regardless of epoch.


In a nutshell, just as Christ's reign is from heaven, so those who reign with Him reign from heaven, which is in accord with our being told by Paul that we are now (in our spirits) "seated in heavenly places in Christ Jesus". And because there is no beginning and end in heaven (no time), it is necessarily the case that the earthly lifespan of each believer, which is that which facilitates the characterisation of his eternal existence in Christ outside of time, is necessarily coextensive with the entire reign of Christ and the entire reign of all in Christ, whenever they might live in the history of the earth. For Christ who now reigns from heaven as a spirit is the same Christ who came to earth in the flesh: His reign from heaven is no greater than, but is rather commensurate with, the ministry He had on earth: His 33 years on earth was, in spiritual substance, the millenial reign.

Hmmm...you make some very good points.

I think the 1000 years is used like it's used other places in the Bible...as a large but perfect number. Like God owns the cattle on a thousand hills, for instance. So who knows what all it includes? For some reason ....from the cross to the 2nd coming makes a lot sense, because that's when we were delivered from the power of death by which satan kept us in a state of fear.

Hebrews 2:14-15
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.

There was power in the blood of the Lamb.

Rev. 12:10
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night. And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by SaulToPaul

Yes, dearest Tottykins

He comes in judgment (Rev 19) before the 1000 years (Rev 20). And, after the 1000 years, the last enemy is destroyed which is death (Rev 20).

Then, the kingdom is delivered unto the Father (1 Cor 15), and there is a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21-22).



If we don't believe this simple outline, or are adamant about sticking to our church's statement of faith, we can spiritualize the 1000 years and make a mockery of it all.





*This post may not be reproduced or retransmitted without the express written consent of Major League Baseball.

I'm not adamant about anything concerning the end times, but I also don't see Revelation written in consecutive order. If that's the right word to use.... John sees the same scene from different perspectives five or six times. It seems like it's a little difficult to ignore that and come up with what comes when.

I have an open mind...show me.

[Colossians]

TL,

We have never said that Christ does not now reign. We say that His kingdom is not yet come as He taught us to pray "Thy kingdom come Thy will be done ON EARTH as it is in heaven".
You are confusing the perfect with the partial.

"Thy kingdom come" simply speaks of its coming in our lives on an individual basis, not its coming with observation.

For "the kingdom of God cometh not with observation", but rather, "the kingdom of God is within you".

So there are not two stages of His reign, but only one. As the OP points out, we are taught in no uncertain terms that He reigns now, and that He will cease reigning upon His return.

Any other view, is a view from dissatisfaction: those who want Him to be reigning physically on earth, are simply not satisfied with His current reign, but think it deficient. Christ's reign is over spiritual matters, not physical. It has untold physical ramifications and effects, but it is nevertheless over spiritual matters, not physical matters.





Glorydaz,

I think the 1000 years is used like it's used other places in the Bible...as a large but perfect number.
Yes this is true. The number 1000 was in fact the largest single number the Greeks had (which is why in order to represent larger numbers in Revelation we see things like "thousand thousand" and what have you).

God knew that the NT would be written in Greek, so the Greek language would necessarily constrain the expression of the figures in Revelation.

The point here is that saying "one thousand thousand" is redundant when speaking of Christ's reign, for one might then say "one thousand thousand thousand", and so on, ad infinitum: where does one stop? So all that is required is the minimally largest number, 1000, to get the point across that Christ's reign is perfect.

Similary, we see "God is good", in scripture, not "God is fantastically out of this world".

And notably, the epistles never refer to the 1000 years. And neither did Christ. And neither did Christ ever say He was coming back to reign on earth. Which is a glaringly obvious omission.

[glorydaz]

Originally Posted by Colossians

And notably, the epistles never refer to the 1000 years. And neither did Christ. And neither did Christ ever say He was coming back to reign on earth. Which is a glaringly obvious omission.

I have to agree. It's quite an omission...omitted by the entire NT, and very vague (thus subject to interpretation) in the OT.