What would be the point of Jesus if there was no fall?
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I'm feeling it man, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling that you have just said that The whole creation was instigated with foreknowledge of sin and the need of a redemptive figure to deal with said sin. Ergo, and I don't think this is a huge step forward from what you're saying, God created sin.
I thank you! I'm here all week! Try the veal, etc.
Actually the fall was necessary for God's plan to take effect. This is what Orthodox Christianity rejects. If Adam hadn't fallen, he wouldn't have become as God knowing good and evil. He wouldn't have need for the tree of life which was already in the garden - so God did plan for the fall. God didn't create the sin, but he planned for it. Adam really had no choice if he wanted to progress.
I'm feeling it man, I'm feeling it. I'm feeling that you have just said that The whole creation was instigated with foreknowledge of sin and the need of a redemptive figure to deal with said sin. Ergo, and I don't think this is a huge step forward from what you're saying, God created sin.
I thank you! I'm here all week! Try the veal, etc.
Yes, this would be no issue if people would understand why this World was Created,m it was Created for the Cross ! Nothing was more important to God the Father, in all the World, that for His Son to Glorify Him by the Work of the Cross ! That was God's Main Purpose for Creating anything Period !
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Slogan/motto:
"O Lord and Master of my life, give me not the spirit of sloth, idle curiosity (meddling), lust for power and idle talk.
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July 1st, 2012, 03:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by beloved57
Yes, this would be no issue if people would understand why this World was Created,m it was Created for the Cross ! Nothing was more important to God the Father, in all the World, that for His Son to Glorify Him by the Work of the Cross ! That was God's Main Purpose for Creating anything Period !
God created the world and Man because God is Love.
The Trinity is a constant flow of love between the 3 persons of God, as Love cannot exist alone. Love does not exist in isolation. It exists by being given to another. That is it's nature.
Man was created by God, for God to love, and to have that love returned. The same love that flows within the Trinity that is God.
Without free will, man could not freely love God. Only with free will, and love freely given, does love have any meaning or worth.
Inevitably, with free will, there is a choice, and a free choice to reject God. Hence, the fall was inevitable.
The sacrifice of God the Son was God demonstating His love, conquering our eternal death, by death and through rising again from death.
It is simple. It is God's perfect love. The world and Man exist to be loved, and to love God.
God created the world and Man because God is Love.
False Teaching. I have stated why God Created this World, it was for a Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus !
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
The fall was inevitable, the plan was all about going through Christ; before the creation of the world.
Ephesians 1:4 (NIV)
For he(God) chose us in him(Christ) before the creation of the world
to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love
The Fall was part of God's Eternal Purpose, of why this World was Created. God wanted to bring sin and death into this world for a Redeeming Purpose !
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
You're all saying roughly the same thing, namely that creation is focused solely around us and our redemption through Christ.
So this 'plan' would have been carried out with intention, with God creating sin in the very first instance so as to be able to carry out the rest of the plan.
Or maybe not, hence God trying the first covenant for a period before ad-libing with the second covenant of christ, in which case it was never a plan, just a reactive response to his creation's wilfulness. This would contradict a lot of what the bible says and what you guys are saying, so you'd probably have to veer towards sin as. God-made issue for the fulfillment of the plan of redemption. Which in turn does away with the need , as humanity had sin foisted upon it fron outside as part of the redemption plan/experiment.
Of course, I have no issue with any of the above as I'm an atheist.
Last edited by Joaquin Gough; July 4th, 2012 at 12:27 PM.
The purpose is eternal and was accomplished. Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
The purpose is eternal and was accomplished. Eph 3:10 so that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly places.
Eph 3:11 This was according to the eternal purpose that he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
The eternal purpose that required God to create sin/evil in the fall/redemption experiment?
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