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Yorzhik Yorzhik is offline
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Can healthcare be a right? - July 2nd, 2012, 08:17 AM
Alate_One said a while back that healthcare was a right. I think a lot of people agree with her. At the time, I simply said there was no hope to discuss the topic with her, and thus with anyone else that also thought healthcare was a right.

However, healthcare is in the news again so I thought I would ask those who think healthcare is a right a question.

Don't healthcare workers have a right to be paid for the work they do? If they do, then it is in direct contradiction to the person's right to healthcare. How does one reconcile the contradiction?




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Tyrathca Tyrathca is offline
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July 2nd, 2012, 08:46 AM
What do you consider rights?

The right to due process, justice, protection etc? Don't lawyers, judges and police have a right to be paid?

Is sanitation a right? What about education? Shelter?

There are few "rights" which don't necessitate someone being payed for something at some point. So your argument seems to fall flat unless you deny the existence of most claimed rights
   
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July 2nd, 2012, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorzhik View Post
Alate_One said a while back that healthcare was a right. I think a lot of people agree with her. At the time, I simply said there was no hope to discuss the topic with her, and thus with anyone else that also thought healthcare was a right.

However, healthcare is in the news again so I thought I would ask those who think healthcare is a right a question.

Don't healthcare workers have a right to be paid for the work they do? If they do, then it is in direct contradiction to the person's right to healthcare. How does one reconcile the contradiction?
The Constitution claims we have rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, so I guess it could be claimed as a right under those pretenses, however they health workers also have a right to be paid, as well as the manufacturers, etc. of the machines and tools of the healthcare trade. Somebody has to get their dollar bills for all those tongue depresses.

Socialized healthcare, however, is a contradiction in and of itself if healthcare is a right.

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Originally Posted by Tyrathca View Post
What do you consider rights?

The right to due process, justice, protection etc? Don't lawyers, judges and police have a right to be paid?

Is sanitation a right? What about education? Shelter?

There are few "rights" which don't necessitate someone being payed for something at some point. So your argument seems to fall flat unless you deny the existence of most claimed rights
You missed his point. He was arguing that rights do not necessitate that someone be paid.




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July 2nd, 2012, 08:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorzhik View Post
Alate_One said a while back that healthcare was a right. I think a lot of people agree with her. At the time, I simply said there was no hope to discuss the topic with her, and thus with anyone else that also thought healthcare was a right.

However, healthcare is in the news again so I thought I would ask those who think healthcare is a right a question.

Don't healthcare workers have a right to be paid for the work they do? If they do, then it is in direct contradiction to the person's right to healthcare. How does one reconcile the contradiction?
No more a contradiction than paying the police and lawyers and judges to protect and promote your right to life and property and speech, etc.

It's foundational. If life is a right then the health that sustains it is a necessary and integral part of that.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
No more a contradiction than paying the police and lawyers and judges to protect and promote your right to life and property and speech, etc.

It's foundational. If life is a right then the health that sustains it is a necessary and integral part of that.
"For after all these things do the pagans seek" - Jesus
   
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July 2nd, 2012, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
"For after all these things do the pagans seek" - Jesus
Do you eat? Do you own anything? So I guess all men seek after any number of things. That Hitler wanted freedom is no argument against it.

I'm addressing right in relation to our compact.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Town Heretic View Post
Do you eat? Do you own anything? So I guess all men seek after any number of things. That Hitler wanted freedom is no argument against it.

I'm addressing right in relation to our compact.
But God is the provider Matthew 6:33. We should not look to government.
   
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July 2nd, 2012, 09:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorzhik View Post
Alate_One said a while back that healthcare was a right. I think a lot of people agree with her. At the time, I simply said there was no hope to discuss the topic with her, and thus with anyone else that also thought healthcare was a right.

However, healthcare is in the news again so I thought I would ask those who think healthcare is a right a question.

Don't healthcare workers have a right to be paid for the work they do? If they do, then it is in direct contradiction to the person's right to healthcare. How does one reconcile the contradiction?
I think if you took a poll from all healthcare workers most would be willing to give care to those who cannot afford it. Because they realize the realities in the world and often have a great passion for their work. Of course this does not mean they themselves don't want enough money for them and their families to live a reasonably comfortable life. The problem arises because their employers (the board of directors) often have financial goals in mind to keep producing a healthy profit. Their really needs to be a balance and a tradeoff between these two valid concerns.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:41 AM
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But God is the provider Matthew 6:33. We should not look to government.
You are right that we should not look to the government to provide us our rights. They should allow us to provide for ourselves, and help us to protect those rights. We should never be wholly reliant on the government for anything.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:42 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wile E. Coyote View Post
But God is the provider Matthew 6:33. We should not look to government.


How convenient for you. You claim to be a Christian, but yet when you are asked to contribute to those in need, you just pass the buck right back to God.





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July 2nd, 2012, 09:43 AM
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You are right that we should not look to the government to provide us our rights. They should allow us to provide for ourselves, and help us to protect those rights. We should never be wholly reliant on the government for anything.
I completely agree. The question is how do we achieve this ideal?

I say that it comes down to people being grateful for what they do have, and to strive for more if they desire such. I agree that there is a subculture that feels they are owed a living from the government. And that is definitely a social phenomenon that needs to be addressed.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:45 AM
Are "rights" universal?

In other words...if having health care is a right, then it should be for everyone. Even those in Egypt. I know it is wrong for me to murder someone if I were in Egypt. That person has the God given right to life. Does that person have a right to health care also? Do all people in all places have the right to health care because they are my neighbor?

Luke 10:29




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:46 AM
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How convenient for you. You claim to be a Christian, but yet when you are asked to contribute to those in need, you just pass the buck right back to God.
Not at all what he was implying.




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July 2nd, 2012, 09:48 AM
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But God is the provider Matthew 6:33. We should not look to government.
So the Good Samaritan should have said to the injured man, "God will be along in a little while. Hang in there."

But I'm not suggesting that the right necessitates socialization, to be clear.





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July 2nd, 2012, 09:50 AM
I think it is a right, in the way that it should be made available to those who want it (while it is still a personally paid service)

It forfeits being a right, when it becomes forced on us (obamacare)... then it just becomes oppression.




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