Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
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The US Health System vs The British NHS -
July 2nd, 2012, 11:45 AM
I've been reading a lot around here recently about the US health system and how it works. Or doesn't work as the case may be.
I've lived under a socialist healthcare system all my life. Under the NHS here in the UK, I do not have to have insurance or pay any money to visit a doctor, get the treatment I need, go to the ER for emergency treatment or any other medical care. This is funded from income tax/general taxation. The only treatments which I have to pay for are dental treatment and optician treatment. Unless on a low income or you have certain medical conditions, there is also a small charge for prescriptions.
Of course, there are private hospitals in the UK and I could get private medical insurance if I chose to. But no matter what, everyone has access to NHS care, and all Emergency treatment is always done in an NHS hospital.
Why does it seem to be that most Americans are so opposed to this type of system? Why should it be the case that if you are richer you have access to better medical care than a poor person?
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
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July 2nd, 2012, 11:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
I've been reading a lot around here recently about the US health system and how it works. Or doesn't work as the case may be.
I've lived under a socialist healthcare system all my life. Under the NHS here in the UK, I do not have to have insurance or pay any money to visit a doctor, get the treatment I need, go to the ER for emergency treament or any other medical care. This is funded from income tax/general taxation. The only treatments which I have to pay for are dental treatment and optician treatment. Unless on a low income or you have certain medical conditions, there is also a small charge for prescriptions.
Of course, there are private hospitals in the UK and I could get private medical insurance if I chose to. But no matter what, everyone has access to NHS care, and all Emergency treatment is always done in an NHS hospital.
Why does it seem to be that most Americans are so opposed to this type of system? Why should it be the case that if you are richer you have access to better medical care than a poor person?
The reason it seems to be a rich vs poor issue for a lot of people is the fact that the government has made it that way intentionally by its failure to regulate healthcare in the first place.
Basically the new law is analogous to a fireman starting a fire and then running into the building to save a few lives and look like a hero.
The government is already the biggest player in America's healthcare system.. it pretty much dictates what doctors must do and how much medicare/medicare will pay for a particular item, so all the doctors and insurers structure their rates based on that.
Then there was the stupid Bush prescription plan which prevented competitive bidding, etc.
If we got the government out of the healthcare business and limited insane malpractice awards, the cost of care would drop through the floor to the point where charities could bear the cost of helping the poor easily.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
The reason it seems to be a rich vs poor issue for a lot of people is the fact that the government has made it that way intentionally by its failure to regulate healthcare in the first place.
Basically the new law is analogous to a fireman starting a fire and then running into the building to save a few lives and look like a hero.
The government is already the biggest player in America's healthcare system.. it pretty much dictates what doctors must do and how much medicare/medicare will pay for a particular item, so all the doctors and insurers structure their rates based on that.
Then there was the stupid Bush prescription plan which prevented competitive bidding, etc.
If we got the government out of the healthcare business and limited insane malpractice awards, the cost of care would drop through the floor to the point where charities could bear the cost of helping the poor easily.
But in the UK, healthcare is controlled by the government and charities aren't even needed to help support the poor get healthcare. Even if I was homeless and penniless, I could still walk into a doctors surgery or a hospital and get medical treatment without having to worry about insurance or my ability to pay.
Why does it seem to be that so many Americans are opposed to a system like that?
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
But in the UK, healthcare is controlled by the government and charities aren't even needed to help support the poor get healthcare. Even if I was homeless and penniless, I could still walk into a doctors surgery or a hospital and get medical treatment without having to worry about insurance or my ability to pay.
Why does it seem to be that so many Americans are opposed to a system like that?
Good question. I'm not.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
But in the UK, healthcare is controlled by the government and charities aren't even needed to help support the poor get healthcare. Even if I was homeless and penniless, I could still walk into a doctors surgery or a hospital and get medical treatment without having to worry about insurance or my ability to pay.
Why does it seem to be that so many Americans are opposed to a system like that?
Because its not cost efficient. Only the bureaucrats and middlemen working on behalf of the government benefit financially based on the UK type of system.
The other issue is that if I decide I want to be a doctor in the UK, I cannot, unless i pay off some politician that will get me into med school. The government determines who gets into med school and what specialty they will study in.
Overall, I think its a very poor return on your dollar.
Not to mention your NHS gouges foreigners that happen to need services when they are visiting Britain, even when they have insurance.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:34 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
Because its not cost efficient. Only the bureaucrats and middlemen working on behalf of the government benefit financially based on the UK type of system.
Not cost efficient?
This is from a survey done of several world health systems:
Quote:
In 2007, health spending was $7,290 per person in the United States, more than double that of any other country in the survey.
Australians spent $3,357, Canadians $3,895, Germans $3,588, the Netherlands $3,837 and Britons spent $2,992 per capitaon health in 2007. New Zealand spent the least at $2,454.
So you spend nearly three times the amount per person than we do? You say that's more cost efficient?
Quote:
The other issue is that if I decide I want to be a doctor in the UK, I cannot, unless i pay off some politician that will get me into med school. The government determines who gets into med school and what specialty they will study in.
Where in the world did you get this idea from? If I wanted to, I could go to university, get the qualifications I need and get into med school. I certainly wouldn't have to pay off any politician to do so. The government doesn't determine who gets into med school, nor what specialty they will study in. Not everyone who goes to med school will even work in the NHS. As I said earlier, there are private hospitals in the UK.
Quote:
Overall, I think its a very poor return on your dollar.
See above comments.
Quote:
Not to mention your NHS gouges foreigners that happen to need services when they are visiting Britain, even when they have insurance.
Actually, we have the opposite problem. Many foreigners come to the UK because of our healthcare system.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
Because its not cost efficient. Only the bureaucrats and middlemen working on behalf of the government benefit financially based on the UK type of system.
The other issue is that if I decide I want to be a doctor in the UK, I cannot, unless i pay off some politician that will get me into med school. The government determines who gets into med school and what specialty they will study in.
Overall, I think its a very poor return on your dollar.
Not to mention your NHS gouges foreigners that happen to need services when they are visiting Britain, even when they have insurance.
I also want to emphasise this point from the article I quoted in the post above:
Quote:
Britain, whose nationalized healthcare system was widely derided by opponents of U.S. healthcare reform, ranks first in quality while the Netherlands ranked first overall on all scores, the Commonwealth team found.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
Meaningless.. pretty much everything you have posted are massaged numbers developed to make the system look better than it is.
I notice you haven't answered to what I said about your claims about the system in my country which were completely wrong. I'm more inclined to believe this article than someone who is posting incorrect statements as facts.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
I notice you haven't answered to what I said about your claims about the system in my country which were completely wrong. I'm more inclined to believe this article than someone who is posting incorrect statements as facts.
Whose are incorrect, yours or mine?... why should I believe yours?.. especially considering their sources?. especially when all you quoted is Reuters.. (might as well have been Fox news or the Huntington post for all that matters).
Slogan/motto:
A thousand times I've failed, still Your mercy remains.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 12:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HisServant
Whose are incorrect, yours or mine?... why should I believe yours?.. especially considering their sources?
You said:
Quote:
The other issue is that if I decide I want to be a doctor in the UK, I cannot, unless i pay off some politician that will get me into med school. The government determines who gets into med school and what specialty they will study in.
And I responded:
Quote:
Where in the world did you get this idea from? If I wanted to, I could go to university, get the qualifications I need and get into med school. I certainly wouldn't have to pay off any politician to do so. The government doesn't determine who gets into med school, nor what specialty they will study in. Not everyone who goes to med school will even work in the NHS. As I said earlier, there are private hospitals in the UK.
And then you ignored what I said. You said something untrue about the system in my country, and now you're asking why you should believe me? Well the fact I'm British and live inside this system and you're American and don't is a good start.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
I notice you haven't answered to what I said about your claims about the system in my country which were completely wrong. I'm more inclined to believe this article than someone who is posting incorrect statements as facts.
Don't sweat it... He won't really answer. There's probably nothing that'll make HisServant change his mind. That's fine. But he's lost the issue, so it's moot. At least for a while. I just hope he'll have the integrity to step back for a couple of years and allow us to see what happens instead of being a big plank and just gumming up everything he can that he doesn't like.
"There was so much handwriting on the wall that even the wall fell down"
"In the long run of history, the censor and the inquisitor have always lost. The only sure weapon against bad ideas is better ideas. The source of better ideas is wisdom. The surest path to wisdom is a liberal education." – Alfred Whitney, Essays on Education
Don't you know
That it ain't a crime
If all the squares
And the junkmen
Think you're out of line
Slogan/motto:
For as much as it depends on you, live at peace with others.
Reputation:
July 2nd, 2012, 01:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovemeorhateme
You said:
And I responded:
And then you ignored what I said. You said something untrue about the system in my country, and now you're asking why you should believe me? Well the fact I'm British and live inside this system and you're American and don't is a good start.
You only have to read the first paragraph if you want.. the British government uses strict quotas in med school admissions based on its planned needs... i.e. If your life long dream is to be say a heart surgeon and they do not forecast the need for one, you will never be admitted to med school... period.
You only have to read the first paragraph if you want.. the British government uses strict quotas in med school admissions based on its planned needs... i.e. If your life long dream is to be say a heart surgeon and they do not forecast the need for one, you will never be admitted to med school... period.
1. This article is from 1998.
2. Your assumption is wrong. I have a cousin currently at medical school, and he had no problems getting in (he didn't "bribe" any government official like you so claim), and he has chosen his own specialty.
3. I said this earlier and I will say it again, not all medical students will work in the NHS, and not all medical schools are run by the NHS. There are such things as private medical schools, private hospitals and private doctors in the UK.
At the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
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