understanding scripture is not through private interpretation
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The 46-book Old Testament canon used by the Christian Church from its very beginning, along with the 27-book New Testament produced by the Christian Church during the 1st century A.D.
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Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
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July 3rd, 2012, 10:46 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
The word of God disagrees - Titus 1:7
Those are indeed the ideal qualities of a bishop. However, no human being is without personal sins*, and that includes the bishops of the Christian Church. Even St. Peter needed to be corrected by Paul for his (Peter's) inappropriate behavior (Gal. 2:11-12). And yet, Peter taught infallibly in his preaching and in his canonical writings.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
_______________
*The Catholic Church recognizes two exceptions to this general point: Jesus Christ, and Mary his mother.
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
[font="Georgia"]Those are indeed the ideal qualities of a bishop. However, no human being is without personal sins*, and that includes the bishops of the Christian Church. Even St. Peter needed to be corrected by Paul for his (Peter's) inappropriate behavior (Gal. 2:11-12). And yet, Peter taught infallibly in his preaching and in his canonical writings.
Tell me by what stretch of the imagination, can a notably very immoral man, an atheist, a child molestor and pagan even qualify to be a bishop?
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
July 3rd, 2012, 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cracked
Oh, okay. How do we know?
Ultimately, we know because Christ's historic Catholic Church authoritatively defined the biblical canon at the 4th-century Councils of Hippo and Rome, and again at the 16th-century Council of Trent.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
July 3rd, 2012, 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel4Truth
Tell me by what stretch of the imagination, can a notably very immoral man, an atheist, a child molestor and pagan even qualify to be a bishop?
People aren't born with such serious sins somehow imbedded in their souls. Such men gradually reach a point---through a slow process of questionable, then inappropriate, then downright criminal choices---where they finally decide to act in a way that they likely never would have earlier in life. In point of fact, every one of us is equally capable of doing the same things, or even worse. In short, anyone is capable of anything.
So, to answer your question, men invariably pursue the priesthood, and then the episcopate (office of bishop), with all sincerity and good intentions, excited about serving Christ's Church and, ultimately, Jesus Christ. For a very few, something goes wrong somewhere along the road, and they end up committing acts that are completely contrary to their calling and purpose as bishops. They are human beings, after all, and nothing prevents them from abusing their free will, any more than anything prevents us from abusing ours.
Did you really imagine that bishops of the Catholic Church would somehow be sinless?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Peter was corrected by Paul, his fellow apostle, when Peter failed to behave in accordance with his (Peter's) own infallible teachings. This is recorded in Gal. 2:11-12.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
It wasn't just Peter's behavior that needed correcting. It was his teaching. Peter wasn't being straightforward with the gospel!
Galatians 2
Quote:
Now when Peter had come to Antioch, I withstood him to his face, because he was to be blamed...they were not straightforward about the truth of the gospel,...
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
July 4th, 2012, 12:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by chatmaggot
It wasn't just Peter's behavior that needed correcting. It was his teaching. Peter wasn't being straightforward with the gospel!
Yes, Peter was not being straightforward in his behavior regarding the gospel that he himself infallibly preached. Peter's behavior was inconsistent with his own infallible teaching.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
July 4th, 2012, 12:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife
Why does the catholic church bend towards wrath/burden rather than grace/freedom with their catacism then?
Example...?
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
So, to answer your question, men invariably pursue the priesthood, and then the episcopate (office of bishop), with all sincerity and good intentions, excited about serving Christ's Church and, ultimately, Jesus Christ. For a very few, something goes wrong somewhere along the road, and they end up committing acts that are completely contrary to their calling and purpose as bishops. They are human beings, after all, and nothing prevents them from abusing their free will, any more than anything prevents us from abusing ours.
Did you really imagine that bishops of the Catholic Church would somehow be sinless?
And you think this describes Benedict IX, a man whose family bought him a bishopric as a teenager and the papacy as a very young adult? A man who, by all accounts, never showed any actual interest in study of scripture and church teachings? A man whose every character and behavior, from the start, made him wholly unqualified to be called a Christian?
And the bishops around him who supported him, took his father's bribes to make him a bishop and then elect him Pope... they supported him throughout his debauchery and even restored him to power after a raging mob had ran him out of Rome.
Sorry, only deeply engrained corruption can explain this, corruption that the scriptures call "flesh." The system is fleshly, driven by the doctrines and wisdom of man. At times it is cleaned up and looks good, but inwardly it is full of dead bones. Jesus had something to say about that.
Slogan/motto:
Gaudium de veritate (Latin, "Delight in the truth")
Reputation:
July 4th, 2012, 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by DonW
And you think this describes Benedict IX...
This part certainly does:
They are human beings, after all, and nothing prevents them from abusing their free will, any more than anything prevents us from abusing ours.
Quote:
...a man whose family bought him a bishopric as a teenager and the papacy as a very young adult? A man who, by all accounts, never showed any actual interest in study of scripture and church teachings? A man whose every character and behavior, from the start, made him wholly unqualified to be called a Christian?
The specific ecclesial politics involved in no way negates the Christ-given doctrinal authority of the ecclesiastical office he held (i.e., the papacy). Fortunately, in God's providence, Benedict IX never defined any formal Christian doctrine. (He was probably too busy sinning.) Try to keep in mind that our Lord Jesus Christ himself personally chose Judas Iscariot and ordained him to the office of apostle---and look how that turned out. No great surprise that the Church has had to endure a few "Judas priests" throughout her long and textured history.
Gaudium de veritate,
Cruciform
+T+
"The very tradition, teaching, & faith of the Catholic Church from the beginning was preached by the Apostles & preserved by the Fathers. On this the Church was founded..." ~ St. Athanasius (4th cent.)
It is quite clear that Judas expected Jesus to respond to the betrayal differently, namely, that Jesus would cast off His restraint and summon the legions of angels to deliver Himself from death and Israel from Rome.
Judas' sin did, in fact, remove him from his apostleship despite having been entrusted in the past. If anyone claimed authority saying that Judas had somehow passed his apostolic calling to them before he fell, you'd laugh such a claim to scorn.
Every calling is conditional, and no calling can be imposed upon an unfit candidate by a corrupt election, or even an honest election by a deceived college of cardinals. God is never fooled. He calls, He chooses, He elects, and when He does the results show for themselves. Those results are lacking in the RCC.
Consider how God sent a deceiving spirit to the mouths of the prophets in 1 Kings 22. He will send a deception to fulfill the desires of the fleshly. He will allow the great multitude to think they are following the truth when they embraces the lies.
Understanding this first, that no prophecy of scripture is made by private interpretation
it is the Church that interprets Scripture.
Christ established a CHURCH ... St Mt 16:18
he never said to write anything
Where and How did you ever come up with that deduction?? -- How do you deduce that from that???
Have you read your own Posts, and all the other Posts that do nothing but tell us what the Meaning of every WORD of God and Jesus Christ ever said??????? -- Your world of Religion does nothing but ((( Interpret ))) GOD!!!
Paul – 070512
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Slogan/motto:
love others as u love yourself... and thank God you dont have to like them
Reputation:
July 5th, 2012, 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bright Raven
Excuse me for the miss in gender. Are you actually telling me you believe there was a gap in Testaments of over 300 years where nothing was acceptable as New Testament teaching. And before you say the post is childish nonsense look at your own post.
July 3rd, 2012, 10:46 PM
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