Exclusively Christian TheologyThis forum is exclusively for those who consider themselves Christian and consider the Bible to be the inspired word of God.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
July 12th, 2012, 11:45 AM
Only the Holy Spirit can justify someone but you cannot get the Holy Spirit from the law because the Holy Spirit is a gift given only by grace.
On the other hand the Holy Spirit that is given unto us is only a seed of Christ and not the fully mature Christ who is the tree of life. For that reason Paul said we have been given an earnest of the Holy Spirit” that means a partial payment of a larger payment yet to be made.
But here's the rub. The only way the seed that is Christ in us can mature into the fullness of Christ in us is for a person to have a complete understanding of the law of the seed. For this reason in Matthew chapter 5 Jesus said those who would be great in this kingdom would be those who would learn and teach the law while those who did not learn the law and cause people to break it would be the least in his kingdom.
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
Where'd I go wrong in the wording of the OP that that which is intended to be understood is flying over the heads of the few who have replied.__and I am at a loss as to how to re-write it.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
July 12th, 2012, 01:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
Where'd I go wrong in the wording of the OP that which is intended to be understood is flying over the heads of the few who have replied.__and I am at a loss as to how to re-write it.
Personally I thought my post was agreeing with you and I took it from there. (Something that does not happen very often between you and me)
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
Charity,
Let me see if I can clarify what my Brother in Christ is getting at by his OP.
Christ came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets of Israel. The Law and the Prophets were an incomplete reconciliation of man to GOD. Under the Law and the Prophets GOD revealed His nature and mankind was just not getting it. GOD wanted fellowship with His creation and the Law and the Prophets which were supposed to guide Israel to do so got corrupted by religious leaders verses leaders of faith. Over and over again GOD raised up men and women of faith and manking continually rejected them and their guidance to bring reconciliation and fellowship between GOD and His creation mankind, made in His Own image.
What was incomplete; reconciliation to fellowship, was made perfectly complete by Christ Jesus. What was temporary by animal sacrifice; forgiveness for sin, was made complete for all who will accept, for always, for all sin, by Jesus' substitutional sacrifice on our behalf.
So, bottom line, Jesus completely and perfectly fulfilled the Law on behalf or all who will believe in Him for that reconciliation. No more works of the Law. No more works of justification. Belief, admission, forgiveness, turning away from sin behaviors, reconciliation-justification-sanctification-glorified with Christ-by Christ.
Slogan/motto:
As long as people will accept crap, it will be financially profitable to dispense it. ✔
- Dick Cavett
Reputation:
July 13th, 2012, 03:21 AM
Wasn't Moses Law the Active Government. operated by the roman empire.
General punishment, forced sacrifice, Taxation, death penalty. believer or not?
Im afraid the death penalty an sacrifice are to different motives...An his death was not discribed as a sacred cermony, An neither was his rising formlar. Neither did anyone say sorry you where right...Law-less just went out on furry an Killed whoever for a word spoken, Hardly a seen in which everyone was stunned by his rising...an fearing God.
An Now...our collar is sown to our Paints, with no responsbility to judge evil, No Jesus yet, an no guts to stand up.
Are you saying.. That when they destroyed Jesus via punishment under the death penalty; Law, that something Just flicked into place, an the purpose of the Law was satisfied to retire after chastening what it had been held up to do.
Justtell me what youwantme to criticize! I want you to be happy<.
Charity,
Let me see if I can clarify what my Brother in Christ is getting at by his OP.
Christ came to fulfill the Law and the Prophets of Israel. The Law and the Prophets were an incomplete reconciliation of man to GOD. Under the Law and the Prophets GOD revealed His nature and mankind was just not getting it. GOD wanted fellowship with His creation and the Law and the Prophets which were supposed to guide Israel to do so got corrupted by religious leaders verses leaders of faith. Over and over again GOD raised up men and women of faith and manking continually rejected them and their guidance to bring reconciliation and fellowship between GOD and His creation mankind, made in His Own image.
What was incomplete; reconciliation to fellowship, was made perfectly complete by Christ Jesus. What was temporary by animal sacrifice; forgiveness for sin, was made complete for all who will accept, for always, for all sin, by Jesus' substitutional sacrifice on our behalf.
So, bottom line, Jesus completely and perfectly fulfilled the Law on behalf or all who will believe in Him for that reconciliation. No more works of the Law. No more works of justification. Belief, admission, forgiveness, turning away from sin behaviors, reconciliation-justification-sanctification-glorified with Christ-by Christ.
Thanks Lee. You gave a good kick start to this that I hope will bring on some additional revelation truth.
As I attempted to point out in the OP, Jesus was the embodiment of the law and, of necessity, would be the means God would use to put to death the works of the flesh in the keeping of the Law, i.e., reduce the ten commandments to just two. The keeping of the ten only brought death and a promise whereas, (cf Rom.7 & 8:1) the keeping of the two brings life and revelation knowledge of the Father. Henceforth it would be by the faith of Abraham that would lead one to obtaining the Faith of the Son of God whereby this union in the Father would be made complete.
In Jesus we can witness God summing up everything about Himself in Him as a *sinless/innocent man could never achieve by keeping the written law: “Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary. . . . Which was a figure for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience; Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. But Christ being come an high priest of good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this building. .”Hebrews 9:1,9-11 (KJV) Therefore, when I say Jesus was Father’s perfect representation of man, “. . . he that hath seen me hath seen the Father”. . ., it is for this reason being summed up in Him, and His death as a sacrifice being a necessity upon *completely performing all the law by His flesh, that by laying down His Life would put an end to it in order for a new covenant be established whereby man might now enter into the presence of God as Jesus did upon His Transfiguration. *cf Mk.9:2. “Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live and whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. . ” John 11:26 (KJV)
Contained in our new birth is the whole substance of the Godhead given us in measure,___given as we are able to handle its glory.
*This deserves a thread of its own to explain.
Last edited by Cross Reference; July 13th, 2012 at 08:13 AM.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
July 13th, 2012, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
What did you take as my reason for what I wrote; what was I seeing in Jesus that I tried to explain?__just curious __you'll get no argument from me.
What I hope is the logic behind what you wrote is that Christ is “the end of the law”
Romans 10:4
For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
However, the translation for the word used as “end” means it is the accumulation of something that in this case is the law.
Said in layman's terms means that when the law is fulfilled in us, Christ is the result. That sounds like a contradiction but this is also what my book is about because when the law is applied spiritually to the Scriptures, and to the spirit and soul that is the kingdom within us, the result of the law fulfilled in us is the fulness of Christ formed in us that is the hope of glory for us.
Without the law fulfilled spiritually in us the gift of the Holy Spirit will only remain as Christ the seed in us instead of becoming Christ the full-grown tree of life.
Blessings
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
Are you saying.. That when they destroyed Jesus via punishment under the death penalty; Law, that something Just flicked into place, an the purpose of the Law was satisfied to retire after chastening what it had been held up to do.
If I understand you correctly: He may not be __but I am.
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
July 13th, 2012, 08:37 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
No. The law was fulfilled in the man Jesus. We are become the beneficiaries upon our new birth that Paul could say: "Follow me as I follow Christ".
And by commandemnet of the law, when the law is fulfilled in us Christ must be formed in us as well.
This is the reason why Jesus has such high praise for those who learn the truth of the law well enough to teach it to others and says that they will be "great in his kingdom", while on the other hand those who do not will be the "least in his kingdom".
The only kingdom that Jesus preached about was the kingdom of heaven also known as the kingdom of God. Therefore, it is very apparent that there is something about the law that is extremely important and goes much further and deeper it than touch not, taste not, do not, etc. etc.
Coming up with the answer to that is the ONLY way that Christians can overcome sin and become holy as our father in heaven is holy. (Unless it is something you think you've already achieved on your own)
Blessings
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
And by commandemnet of the law, when the law is fulfilled in us Christ must be formed in us as well.
The cart doesn't come before the horse. Learn Jesus Christ __ learn the Law. He is the Law. "Take My Yoke upon you". . . Jesus, the "First of First Fruits".
. . . . . Is there another law you wish to speak of?
Slogan/motto:
Your faith is what you believe in and by their fruit you shall know them
Reputation:
July 13th, 2012, 02:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
The cart doesn't come before the horse. Learn Jesus Christ __ learn the Law. He is the Law. "Take My Yoke upon you". . . Jesus, the "First of First Fruits".
. . . . . Is there another law you wish to speak of?
For a start the law of the seed but first you need to learn how to take a law that was written literally and apply it spiritually. After that you could move on the laws of sex and marriage so you can receive the bride adorned for her husband that comes down from heaven to earth.
If and when you figure it out you will be on your way to seeing miracles following your ministry.
Doug
Please read and support: "Modern Day Prophet" by Douglas Duncan
For a start the law of the seed but first you need to learn how to take a law that was written literally and apply it spiritually. After that you could move on the laws of sex and marriage so you can receive the bride adorned for her husband that comes down from heaven to earth.
If and when you figure it out you will be on your way to seeing miracles following your ministry.
Doug
Learn Jesus Christ __ learn the Law. He is the Law. "Take My Yoke upon you". . . Jesus, the "First of First Fruits".
. . . . . Is there another law you wish to speak of?
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