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God's "irrestible grace" vs man's freewill. -
July 20th, 2012, 06:38 AM
Which is it?:
"Now the word of the LORD came unto Jonah the son of Amittai, saying,
Arise, go to Nineveh, that great city, and cry against it; for their wickedness is come up before me.
But Jonah rose up to flee unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD, and went down to Joppa; and he found a ship going to Tarshish: so he paid the fare thereof, and went down into it, to go with them unto Tarshish from the presence of the LORD." Jonah 1:1-3 (KJV)
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 02:32 PM
Definately "irrestible grace" in the tradition of that great teaching:
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
that HIS elect will be trained up in righteousness until they hate the evil and choose only holiness and are acceptable in HIS sight.
Peace, Ted
Wheat are NOT reborn tares !!!
Matt 13:36-43 good seed are sown by the Son of man tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil and, as per
Matthew 15:13 …Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up!
Definately "irrestible grace" in the tradition of that great teaching:
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
that HIS elect will be trained up in righteousness until they hate the evil and choose only holiness and are acceptable in HIS sight.
Peace, Ted
How then does everyone resist it???
Paul -- 072012
---Gal. 4:16.
---"Am I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth"???
Definately "irrestible grace" in the tradition of that great teaching:
Romans 8:28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose.
that HIS elect will be trained up in righteousness until they hate the evil and choose only holiness and are acceptable in HIS sight.
Peace, Ted
So what "great" teaching supports "irresistible" grace?
Slogan/motto:
"And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome but must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
2 Timothy 2:24
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 06:29 PM
It is a bit of both. The sermons and writings of John Wesley are a great resource for this topic. It is only by grace, prevenient grace, that we are are able to respond to God's promptings. Prevenient grace is irresistible in that it is God's gift to all humanity, and it is what gives humanity a sense of the divine, and the moral law.
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
Reputation:
July 20th, 2012, 06:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
So what "great" teaching supports "irresistible" grace?
The word election and predestinated are the great teaching of irrestistable grace, in that they are promises from a GOD who cannot lie and who cannot fail.
Rom 9:11-13 "(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Rom 8:21-30 " For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
Peace, Ted
Wheat are NOT reborn tares !!!
Matt 13:36-43 good seed are sown by the Son of man tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil and, as per
Matthew 15:13 …Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up!
How can one resist Grace that Reigns through Jesus Christ, when it is stronger, much much stronger than death that came through Adam ? Rom 5:21
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.
Is sin and death more powerful than the reign of Grace ? Can one resist sin and death also ?
Rom 2:28-29
28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
I'm a strong believer in Irresistible Grace in regards to our Salvation.
Though not in presentation but after regeneration.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
It is a bit of both. The sermons and writings of John Wesley are a great resource for this topic. It is only by grace, prevenient grace, that we are are able to respond to God's promptings. Prevenient grace is irresistible in that it is God's gift to all humanity, and it is what gives humanity a sense of the divine, and the moral law.
Obviously, you can't be correct if prevenient is taken to be irresistible. I mean, Adam did, didn't he?
The word election and predestinated are the great teaching of irrestistable grace, in that they are promises from a GOD who cannot lie and who cannot fail.
But He can be misread/misunderstood/misinterpreted? Right?
Rom 9:11-13 "(for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls),
Rom 8:21-30 " For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son,
Peace, Ted[/quote]
Great teaching comes from great teachers of what God's word declares. Great teachers teach the bible as it can only be taught, i.e., by revelation. They have attained it by relationship and not by scholarly presumption.
I'm a strong believer in Irresistible Grace in regards to our Salvation.
Though not in presentation but after regeneration.
But wouldn't you conclude that such grace after regeneration is because of your love affair with Christ? And is that not something you [we] must work at on a daily basis?
But wouldn't you conclude that such grace after regeneration is because of your love affair with Christ? And is that not something you [we] must work at on a daily basis?
Definitely, what I'm saying though is that once my eyes have been opened it really is irresistible, I don't think I could ever choose to leave. That being said, yes, I definitely need to work daily on my relationship with God.
Crown Him, ye martyrs of your God, who from His altar call;
Hail Him Who saves you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of all!
Let every tribe and every tongue before Him prostrate fall;
The God incarnate, Man divine, and crown Him Lord of all!
"Apart from me you can do nothing."~Jesus
Phil. 3:8 (ESV)
Definitely, what I'm saying though is that once my eyes have been opened it really is irresistible, I don't think I could ever choose to leave. That being said, yes, I definitely need to work daily on my relationship with God.
Slogan/motto:
I know a lot of fancy dancers
People who can glide you on a floor
They move so smooth but have no answers
When you ask "Why'd you come here for?"
~ Cat Stevens
Reputation:
July 21st, 2012, 01:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
But He can be misread/misunderstood/misinterpreted? Right?
Of course, and that is why HIS promise means so much to me...no matter how wilfully sinful I am or ignorant or anything, HE will never stop working with me UNTIL I achieve my place in HIS community in perfection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cross Reference
Great teaching comes from great teachers of what God's word declares. Great teachers teach the bible as it can only be taught, i.e., by revelation. They have attained it by relationship and not by scholarly presumption.
AMEN!!!
Peace, Ted
Wheat are NOT reborn tares !!!
Matt 13:36-43 good seed are sown by the Son of man tares are of the wicked one 39 sown by the devil and, as per
Matthew 15:13 …Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up!
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